| i feel like maybe im still immature because i truly don't see much charm in pacifism in FICTION, i did not enjoy Vash in Trigun, he was refusing to take actions necessary to get rid of evil characters - sure it's his morals and values, i respect that but i do not enjoy that same happened with Aang from ATLA but atleast him being a monk made much more sense than Vash, now i have not watched S2 of Vinland Saga yet and ive heard much about how well they do pacifism there but in general... regarding every media i feel like im a kid who likes cheap tacky flashy tropes of "vengeance". sure id like what you people think about pacifism in fiction or such noble no violence characters ? (please i hate wars, we need pacifism in irl) |
 ♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
| It depends in what way it is depicted. It can be interesting or it can be boring. |
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| Yeah, "because fighting is bad, duh" is not an interesting or sympathetic point of view on its own. I understand why people get immediately annoyed. I just want anime to actually take a close look at pacifism and tell a good story with it. I like how Vinland Saga S2 handled it, because you get to see in detail how a person comes to choose pacifism, how they hold on to it, and what outcome that leads to. And the rest of the manga pushes that idea to the brink. Pacifism is much harder and trickier than violence, which makes the story engrossing and powerful. |
| Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Vash is a little more interesting and should be separated from these other characters a bit because he is not a human preaching pacifism amongst other men. He has a weird paternalistic relationship to humanity. It's still silly and likely just as preachy on the part of the author (it's been a long time since I've seen OG Trigun, so I'm not sure about the execution), but the dynamic makes more sense to me. I'm not a pacifist, but I get the feeling that plenty of real pacifists will just be cringing from watching their anime counterparts. |
perseii said: Yeah, "because fighting is bad, duh" is not an interesting or sympathetic point of view on its own. I understand why people get immediately annoyed. I just want anime to actually take a close look at pacifism and tell a good story with it. I like how Vinland Saga S2 handled it, because you get to see in detail how a person comes to choose pacifism, how they hold on to it, and what outcome that leads to. And the rest of the manga pushes that idea to the brink. Pacifism is much harder and trickier than violence, which makes the story engrossing and powerful. Now that you mentioned pacifism being trickier and harder to nail I feel like one of the few media where i really truly enjoyed an act of mercy, an act of pacifism is in The Last Of Us |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
EvolKarma said: No, just a matter of preference. For me, it gets annoying/boring really fast. But I can see how it would appeal to the Japanese audience. hope you don't mind me asking but why would pacifist themes resonate with japanese audience given their history.... unless im not educated about their culture and history enough  |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
Gsarthotegga said: Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Vash is a little more interesting and should be separated from these other characters a bit because he is not a human preaching pacifism amongst other men. He has a weird paternalistic relationship to humanity. It's still silly and likely just as preachy on the part of the author (it's been a long time since I've seen OG Trigun, so I'm not sure about the execution), but the dynamic makes more sense to me. I'm not a pacifist, but I get the feeling that plenty of real pacifists will just be cringing from watching their anime counterparts. i guess we could say that given Vash didn't have a traumatic past with the antagonists unlike Thorfinn but i am yet to watch S2 (repeating myself) so I can't jump to conclusions... what are some of your fave display of pacifism in media? |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
Reply to ame
EvolKarma said:
No, just a matter of preference. For me, it gets annoying/boring really fast. But I can see how it would appeal to the Japanese audience.
No, just a matter of preference. For me, it gets annoying/boring really fast. But I can see how it would appeal to the Japanese audience.
hope you don't mind me asking but why would pacifist themes resonate with japanese audience given their history....
unless im not educated about their culture and history enough
ame said: hope you don't mind me asking but why would pacifist themes resonate with japanese audience given their history.... Preciously due to their history. The government has reinvented their image as pacifists by covering up their past atrocities. As far as I am aware, most of the brutal shit they did in the past is not covered in their education system/textbooks. |
| “does not liking ‘pacifist’ characters make you immature and childish ?” I think that would depend on what the reasoning is behind the dislike. It’s totally valid and understandable to not like certain pacifist characters that chose to let evil characters run rampant — I personally don’t see that as a sign of immaturity or childishness. |
Reply to ame
perseii said:
Yeah, "because fighting is bad, duh" is not an interesting or sympathetic point of view on its own. I understand why people get immediately annoyed.
I just want anime to actually take a close look at pacifism and tell a good story with it.
I like how Vinland Saga S2 handled it, because you get to see in detail how a person comes to choose pacifism, how they hold on to it, and what outcome that leads to. And the rest of the manga pushes that idea to the brink. Pacifism is much harder and trickier than violence, which makes the story engrossing and powerful.
Yeah, "because fighting is bad, duh" is not an interesting or sympathetic point of view on its own. I understand why people get immediately annoyed.
I just want anime to actually take a close look at pacifism and tell a good story with it.
I like how Vinland Saga S2 handled it, because you get to see in detail how a person comes to choose pacifism, how they hold on to it, and what outcome that leads to. And the rest of the manga pushes that idea to the brink. Pacifism is much harder and trickier than violence, which makes the story engrossing and powerful.
Now that you mentioned pacifism being trickier and harder to nail I feel like one of the few media where i really truly enjoyed an act of mercy, an act of pacifism is in The Last Of Us
ame said: Now that you mentioned pacifism being trickier and harder to nail I originally meant that pacifism is hard for the characters, rather than for the writer. Violence is "easier," especially for anime characters. It's immediately more satisfying and appears to fix the problem better. But what if it really isn't...? What if they choose the hard path? That can make for a good story. But I also agree that pacifism might be hard to write. ame said: an act of pacifism is in The Last Of Us Keep in mind I've only watched the cutscenes, but to me |
Reply to ame
Gsarthotegga said:
Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Vash is a little more interesting and should be separated from these other characters a bit because he is not a human preaching pacifism amongst other men. He has a weird paternalistic relationship to humanity. It's still silly and likely just as preachy on the part of the author (it's been a long time since I've seen OG Trigun, so I'm not sure about the execution), but the dynamic makes more sense to me. I'm not a pacifist, but I get the feeling that plenty of real pacifists will just be cringing from watching their anime counterparts.
Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Vash is a little more interesting and should be separated from these other characters a bit because he is not a human preaching pacifism amongst other men. He has a weird paternalistic relationship to humanity. It's still silly and likely just as preachy on the part of the author (it's been a long time since I've seen OG Trigun, so I'm not sure about the execution), but the dynamic makes more sense to me. I'm not a pacifist, but I get the feeling that plenty of real pacifists will just be cringing from watching their anime counterparts.
i guess we could say that given Vash didn't have a traumatic past with the antagonists unlike Thorfinn but i am yet to watch S2 (repeating myself) so I can't jump to conclusions...
what are some of your fave display of pacifism in media?
| @ame That's a tough question for me. I can't think of many. Most depictions I can think of resemble criticisms of pacifism, like Tom Bombadil in LoTR; Tolkien probably isn't criticizing him so much as he is presenting a representation of a pacifistic ideal or part of nature, but since the necessity of beating Sauron is expressed, the "right" choice according to the narrative would seem to be for Bombadil to join the heroes in their fight against Sauron. I think the difference here to anime is that Tolkien isn't demonizing Bombadil, nor is he glorifying his decision. I recall reading Orson Scott Card's Ender books as a kid, and they took a pacifistic turn as the series went along, especially in Speaker for the Dead, which has a weird sci-fi setup that involves cultural misunderstandings on a planet with alien races; I find it more palatable than Vinland Saga because of the unusual situation, and I suppose it probably works here, but I don't remember the book well. But since I wrote the above, I'll take this opportunity to expand on what I was saying earlier as well. My experience of it in anime is either something like Monster, where Tenma follows Johan around and watches him murder people and does nothing to stop it (I mean, he kind of does, but he could have easily ended the whole thing at the halfway point if he had wanted to)... I know that a lot of people really love this series, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Or the other scenario is that there's a weak group of people, then there are the stronger bandits or armies who want to rob/kill/oppress the former group. The pacifist's words might work for the former group if they weren't being victimized, but typically won't work with the latter. In the case of Thorfinn, his attempts at pacifism only work at all because he has special shonen abilities that allow him to avoid taking lives and overcome adversity. I feel like it only works well in fiction when there isn't a lot of direct conflict (with whatever conflict there is being shown to emphasize its brutality and the suffering it causes... VS still kind of revels in the action, I feel). We see lots of small battles and brutal village massacres in Vinland Saga. Many of these encounters seem unavoidable in the way they are presented, so I don't feel comfortable with how Thorfinn promotes pacifism. I can understand it as an end goal, but Thorfinn seems like he puts the cart before the horse, as you're unlikely going to be able to avoid violence and live peacefully in these circumstances. I guess if we saw it from the perspective of a diplomat who was trying to broker peace between two kingdoms, it would make more sense to me. Maybe you can avoid a wide-scale war, but some smaller battles usually have to be fought because there are legitimate grievances/reasons for conflict in the first place that have to be sorted out. That being said, I am curious if there are some stronger examples of pacifism in anime. Maybe manga is a better place to look. |
| pacifism is a privilege. in a perfect world, we would all be pacifists. in this imperfect world (and in the imperfect fictional worlds of anime), we cannot afford to be so passive... I do like these kinds of characters though, for being a reminder that the world is not all black and white. |
can't yuck my yum |
| In isekai stories, viewers sometimes complain about the Protagonist being too much of a pacifist. It's usually along the lines of: ---Not immediately attacking people who are clearly bad, or waiting too long for things to unfold before taking an action (or being forced into it) I often get why viewers complain about a pacifist protagonist, but sometimes their complaints are unwarranted. Viewrs either ignore the context of the wider situation, the protagonists' personality, or demand unreasonable actions they'd supposedly do in the protag's shoes. On the otherhand, I personally dislike isekai protagonists that treat the world their in as a video game (unless it literally is one.) And how they're never influenced by the gravity of their situation or their actions. |
ow + nw = 90-2000s |
| I really liked it in Grenadier "The way to win a fight is defeating the enemy intention to fight". I think Vinland is cool because Thorfin is not overwhelming his enemy, or taking his weapon out, like Seed's Kira or Vash do. But because he will just run away. You want to steal me, take it. It is not worthy fighting for. And so while Vash is a pacifist because he can beat you into his values, how many times he needs, and so he will win. Thorfin is a pacifist because he lets you have your win, he does not want to even fight, it is not worth anything. What did you think about Pokemon first movie, the one with Mew and Mewtwo? If you look at the forums, 2 users calling out another multiple times in a flame war is like Vash, they will shoot shoot, feel like they won, get tired nothing advances. But if one goes Thorfin and just leaves? "Oh ok you won, that was not important". So I think you just dislike the trope on Vash, because it is not that mature. It is an advance from the double KO of an revenge story where someone sacrifices everything in revenge, Or at least some kind of consequence. |
| Blind pacifism ignores the harsh reality that some conflicts demand resistance, whether diplomatic, economic, or military. Britain and France pursued a policy of appeasement toward Hitler, culminating in the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex parts of Europe in exchange for Hitler's promise of "peace." Even Gandhi's non-violent campaign against British colonialism wasn't the sole key to success, despite what the British narrative might suggest. Without the mounting losses inflicted by resistance fighters and the growing hostility from ordinary people, Britain might never have withdrawn. You can't simply sing "Kumbaya" and hope that Islamic extremists or terrorists will stop killing non-Muslims or trampling basic human rights. History repeatedly shows that, when facing unyielding dictatorships, passivity isn't a solution, it's an enabler. Since this is a profoundly serious real-life topic, depictions in media must handle it with nuance; otherwise, they risk becoming childishly preachy without conveying any meaningful message. A strong example for me is Mob from Mob Psycho 100, who suppresses his immense psychic powers to avoid hurting others, prioritizing emotional control and kindness above all. His pacifism is deeply tied to personal growth, as he recognizes that losing control could lead to massive destruction or harm to those he loves. As a result, he resolves conflicts through empathy whenever possible, but he still unleashes his power when absolutely necessary. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the show, Tanjiro from Demon Slayer is another solid example. He battles demons with immense compassion, striving to understand their pain and lingering humanity. Yet he knows that sparing violent demons would only allow them to continue slaughtering innocents. There are a few other good ones, but I'll stop there for now. Now, the one "pacifist" who seriously infuriates me. Midoriya. |
on 
| liking pacifist characters in action shows makes you weak |
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| Pacifist characters are usually really cringe and poorly written characters with a saviour complex that only works through the power of plot convenience. Thorfinn was sort of the only one that made sense. |
*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧May the winds of change transform you entirely.*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ |
Reply to Gsarthotegga
Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Vash is a little more interesting and should be separated from these other characters a bit because he is not a human preaching pacifism amongst other men. He has a weird paternalistic relationship to humanity. It's still silly and likely just as preachy on the part of the author (it's been a long time since I've seen OG Trigun, so I'm not sure about the execution), but the dynamic makes more sense to me. I'm not a pacifist, but I get the feeling that plenty of real pacifists will just be cringing from watching their anime counterparts.
Gsarthotegga said: What have you done?! I was going to write something similar, but then I saw your post, so I decided to just agree and expand it with my thoughts instead, haha.Wanting peace is one thing, but characters like Thorfinn have moronic shonen pacifism that can only work in a shonen. It's common in shonen and almost always preachy and badly written. Indeed, pacifism is often shown in an overly simplified way, even though the basic concept isn't that hard to portray in pretty much any type of media. But if we stick to anime, it's usually badly written, not relatable at all, and unrealistic within the universe it's shown in. Thorfinn is a good example of "pacifism done wrong and dumb", with showing a pacifist as some numbed down and naive type of person who can only be like that if they can be capable of being a killing machine on the battlefield, so they can endure all difficulties that "extreme modern version of pacifism, but in the 11th century" can bring (ye I know, I don't get Vinland Saga at all, I should get some help, blah blah). Vash, on the other hand, is a character whose pacifism I feel was done right - peace-loving, powerful yet with dark elements in his past, knowing when to defend himself and others from evil, and approaching life earnestly. Sure, it wasn't flawless, but its writing quality was much better than the "ninja viking pacifist" thing (yeah, trying to avoid spoilers). At least it looked believable in-verse, especially if we take a look at the manga (both Trigun and Trigun Maximum). The funniest part is when fans of Thorfinn yell "I have no enemies" while getting their pitchforks ready for anyone who doesn’t glaze over their favorite manga, lol. Or when they compare Thorfinn's point of view to some modern, hippie version of Jesus they read about somewhere, formed outta random quotes from the Bible taken out of context. ;D |
Reply to traed
It depends in what way it is depicted. It can be interesting or it can be boring.
| @traed ^ @ame The pacifist has many forms. All these have a character you will recognize as a type of pacifist by the end. There is no chance you won't dislike one of these pacifists no matter who you are. To judge the perfect pacifist, Gundam Wing. To judge the optimal pacifist, Gundam 00, Gundam 00 S2, and A Wakening of Trailblazer. To judge the practical pacifist, Juuni Taisen. To judge the slothful pacifist, Legend of the Galactic Heroes. To judge the fearful pacifist, Nageki no Bourei wa Intai shitai. To judge the obligated pacifist, Beastars, Beastars II. To judge the objective pacifist, Youjo Senki. To judge the militant pacifist, Suisei no Gargantia. To judge the dishonest pacifist, Shiki. To judge the repentive pacifist, Rurouni Kenshin. To judge the selfish pacifist, Code Geass, Code Geass R2. To judge the procession pacifist, Meitantei Conan. To judge the uninvolved pacifist, Kino no Tabi To judge the hostile pacifist, Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou. To judge the impotent pacifist, Claymore. To judge the salaryman pacifist, Black Lagoon. To judge the coercive pacifist, Jormungand. To judge the virgin pacifist, Junketsu no Maria. To judge the hypocritical pacifist, Kingdom <the anime sucks read the manga>. To judge the sufficient pacifist, Youkoso Jitsuryoku Shijou Shugi no Kyoushitsu e. To judge the inviolable pacifist, Sokushi Cheat ga Saikyou Sugite, Isekai no Yatsura ga Marude Aite ni Naranaindesu ga. To judge the meaningless pacifist, Vinland Saga. |
| Somehow, Rimuru Tempest is always the character that springs to my mind with pacifism. It is likely because I read critics when the series came out, and also because those critics were glad to have the return of the classic hero trope : kind, almost soft, but uses force when necessary. I have to admit it's almost comical (some might say lazy writing) that he encounters almost no serious opposition at all, he's almost like a God with his virtual assistant (which I don't remember the name). They made him with feelings of Japan nostalgia (classic isekai trope) and lose his precious loss even worse (no spoiler here), so that he feels more human, but he's still a godly-scale power pacifist with flashy moves, and builds his kingdom with only one objective in mind: live the luxurious Japanese life whatever happens until he finds a way home. I notice I didn't answer the question. No, I don't think liking characters like Rimuru makes you immature or childish. |
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| What about Dr. Tenma from Monster? Or Akane Tsunemori from Psycho Pass? |
Reply to dunkelfalke
What about Dr. Tenma from Monster? Or Akane Tsunemori from Psycho Pass?
| @dunkelfalke Akane isn't really all that much of a pacifist. It ONLY gets annoying when its Vash level. |
dunkelfalke said: What about Dr. Tenma from Monster? Or Akane Tsunemori from Psycho Pass? i heavily enjoy Tenma slanders and i am yet to finish monster which sitting in my on-hold list for years now, it is frustrating to watch for me |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
valico said: ame said: Vash didn't have a traumatic past with the antagonists What part of "my brother killed the person I cared for most and almost destroyed the entirety of humanity" is not a traumatic past? you know what ? my bad...that totally slipped out of my mind and that says how much of annoying Vash was for me to watch...he did nothing |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
Eldinis said: wow i cant believe Rimuru slipped off my mind, he is like one of my fave characters ever haha and his No, I don't think liking characters like Rimuru makes you immature or childish. was so well done i totally forgot that he is a pacifist by nature, his revenge was so well done !! i guess being a pacifist like Vash is very much different than being a pacifist like Rimuru |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
| I like this storytelling aproach of never supporting/dehumanizing/celebrating characters actions while also showing violence more uncomfortable/disturbing way like irl, basically letting viewers/readers judge with their own eyes rather than fiction antagonizing sth or celebrating no matter how good or wrong the action was, and I also liked how stories were showing how violoence was affecting people in the long run and how long it took them to recover from it. |
| Greatest shitposter under the heavens. Greatest anime tourist on the planet earth. Greatest fan of corporations. The greatest sell out move which was done in fictional storytelling was Gordon Freeman cutting ponytail. My account is non transfereable license. Which chromium is the best chromium? |
| It's the other way around. Most stories with preachy pacifist characters show that the author has an unbelievably childish worldview that immediately disqualifies it from being taken seriously. |
valico said: i hope that was not a jab at me at an individual level but rather my taste in fiction but i guess im immature in some ways because i believe people who have the power to help, should help (aka Vash) and sure he did not want to hurt anyone but the people he refused to kill kept hurting the mass, difficult choices are to be made for peace and i do like troubled conflicted ambiguous characters with grey morality, its just really frustrating to watch and that is totally on me- I couldnt even keep going with Monster due to Tenma keep choosing the path of peace and letting Johan hurt the mass...again. i should reflect on myself to understand Either you just want clear cut black and white villain hero roles, or you simply lack the life experience or empathy to comprehend those characters' motivations. |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
perseii said: that sounds dreadful, i like it haha...i think media is never objective...we see what we can relate to or what we find sort of connection to...your way of interpreting her actions might be different from me but at the end of the day, it does resonate to most people and thats what media is about to begin with t looked like she just... stopped, because she's lost so much by this point and she just didn't see the point of going through with it. Basically everyone else that she wanted dead was already dead, and we see her completely alone at the end after her family left her. It was exhaustion and resignation that I was feeling from her. |
♡ your tears cause me much bigger pain than the blood you draw pushing your cold blade |
| i had a similar thinking with people irl who rather forgive than seek retribution. i used to view it not as an act of virtue, but as idiocy plain and simple. but then the more i grew up, the more i realized that they are very strong people, on a realm of their own. it takes immense strength to take that stance with all one have gone through. i now look at them as strong but also normal people, they just deal with things in another way, and that's the choice they made. in anime though logic often flies out of the window, and they tend to glorify both sides of the coin without a proper dive into the character and their actions. it tends to come out as superficial, both the stance of violence and pacifism. it's a broad and a complex subject i think, but since anime is in it core will always be just meant for entertainment, they can never fully translate the extent of what true suffering and war is like (at least in most titles), so people will still have the mindset of 'this is not real, this world is not real, these people are not real, why not just wreak havoc?' |
 |
| I think it depends on the way it's done: If pacifism is done for the only purpose of a character to keep their "goody two shoes" image for the sake of the audience, that's cheap. If pacifism is done as a more profound way to explore on closure, forgiveness, mercy, ending a cycle of hatred, etc. that can have more interest. Personally, I think seeing a main character question and defy their own morality to take drastic decisions is far more engaging, because that makes them feel more human and flawed like everyone, and makes the audience think what they'd do in their situation. Just as long as it's not done for mere shock value too. |
  Gather in my presence As I am slowly achieving G O D H O O D I have passed through the еntropy Called into being, from nothing. |
| I think if the rationale for being a pacifist is explained well and in spite of this explanation you still criticize the character for choosing pacifism, you are immature or just violent. Vinland Saga S2 gave a good explanation of the character's motivation but many people where unhappy with the direction. These people are, in my view, immature because they refuse to understand the character's motivations. Not all pacifism is good. Sometimes pacifism can be interpreted as inaction and that isn't praiseworthy. Example: A child is getting attacked, the main character can save the child but would need to be a bit violent with the attacker and they (MC) choose to avoid the interaction because they don't want to be violent. Also I like shows that have a realistic take on good and evil. It isn't as black and white as the western world thinks it is. Edit: Being frustrated with pacifist characters is reasonable but again you must try to understand their motivations is my point. |
HellindiuMFeb 6, 8:08 AM
Reply to Stanis150
For me pacifism is really "immature and childish" ideology, so I think opposite.
+ especially from Japanese creators (country and society which absolutely refuses take responsibility for their 20 century crimes) this narrative sounds really hypocritically.
+ especially from Japanese creators (country and society which absolutely refuses take responsibility for their 20 century crimes) this narrative sounds really hypocritically.
| @Stanis150 this is BS. Yes, the Japanese government (and society) is refusing to acknowledge the crimes their ancestors committed before and during WWII but how does it become better if the authors preach violence? They were violent and brutal during WWII and that is the crime. So being non-violent is better, no? I'd rather have violent countries be non-violent than kill what they consider as "bad people". |
Reply to ComeInReiAsuka
@dunkelfalke Akane isn't really all that much of a pacifist. It ONLY gets annoying when its Vash level.
| @ComeInReiAsuka she went out of her way to not use dominators in lethal mode. Even though it endangered her life. I'd say she is about as much true pacifist as possible within that society. |
| The most militant pacifist anime I ever saw was Now & Then Here and There. The biggest complaint about pacifist characters are the ones who are in the middle of a battle and actively put their companions at risk by refusing to fight. You cannot be a pacifist and go into a war. Pacifists should stay safely away from battles and absolutely not interfere.. writers of anime seem to enjoy putting them into wars which I despise. |
| It made me drop Vinland saga s2 becuse pushing pacifist messagng became the main thing the show did, most of the compelling parts of season 1 was gone. So I'd say it annoys and bores me for sure. I probably won't watch another anime with similar themes. |
| I only dislike a character's pacifism if A) their inaction from their pacifism routinely gets their comrades killed, like the protagonist in the manga Suicide Island, or if B) their pacifism is inconsistent, like Ben Affleck in Daredevil (2003) killing numerous lesser criminals almost gleefully, but sparing the main villain. |
Some of you never watched Bakugan Battle Brawlers on TeleToon in 2008 and it shows. |
| There's nothing wrong with disliking pacifistic characters. I'd say it's more immature to prop these characters up on a pedestal for their selfish actions. It's especially bad in action-heavy series where innocent lives are at stake. My advice for OP: read/watch Rurouni Kenshin, as well as season 2 of Vinland Saga. Your opinion of either will let you know if it's a theme that can be done right, or if you're just not a fan of it. As far as I'm concerned, Thorfinn is everything wrong with pacifist protagonists, and Kenshin is everything right. |
Reply to L01MK
It's the other way around. Most stories with preachy pacifist characters show that the author has an unbelievably childish worldview that immediately disqualifies it from being taken seriously.
| @L01MK Can't be too quick to decide that when the character himself can be naive irrespective to what the author personally thinks. Though most of the time it is as you thought. |
| How exactly is realizing that you can't always have things both ways is childish or immature? Growing up is realizing, that protagonists like the one from Peach Boy Riverside or Symphogear are not only terrible and awful characters, but also people. |
 |
Reply to plebrepel
@L01MK Can't be too quick to decide that when the character himself can be naive irrespective to what the author personally thinks. Though most of the time it is as you thought.
| @plebrepel You're right, that's why I said preachy pacifist characters, as those are obviously the ones which are a mouthpiece of the author. |
| I always felt like, and still feel like, some of these characters, including Aang, disregard feelings of their comrades and don't see the need of necessary violence. Lot of these people are quick to shout "but both sides!" Which sometimes is true, but others times not. It didn't make sense with Thorfinn's father either. He willingly risked the lives of his crew and even his son, so he doesn't have to use deadly violence for self-defense(!). His also partly at fault for every victim of Askalad and his crew after he died, since he easily could have stopped them. And I don't know if I like it in Thorfinn to this extreme degree. At least Aang uses violence for self-defense. |
TressymFeb 6, 5:05 PM
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