does not liking "pacifist" characters make you immature and childish ?

Feb 6, 5:15 PM

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Feb 2024

1120

I guess it would depend on if you dislike all pacifist characters or just some of them. For example, I can understand being annoyed at say, Deku being pacifist in a series where many of the villains are unrepentant and difficult to stop or contain however I think pacifist character can provide a useful narrative purpose to a story. For example in this seasons "Roll Over And Die" the protagonist Flum, is somewhat jaded from her experiences and doesn't hesitate to kill someone she believes to be a threat, she finds herself paired with the much more optimistic and kind Sara who is something of a pacifist who serves to challenge Flum's viewpoint as well as having her own viewpoint challenged. How well the series pulls the dynamic off is up for debate but I think it's at least a mostly competant use of a pacifist character.

Feb 6, 5:26 PM

#52

ryzxgum

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Apr 2022

8424

according to the fake deep fans, yeah.

Feb 6, 5:42 PM

#53

ShiftyKitsune

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Jul 2021

546

I don't usually like pacifist characters because they're often written poorly. They're never challenged, they're willing to just forgive horrible people, reality just bends arround them in a very unreal, idealized way, so those horrible people just change with a couple words and they're always so annoyingly preachy.

It's why I utterly despise works like UnderTale but love the original 1998 Trigun anime.

Feb 6, 5:49 PM

#54

ma1kawa11

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Jan 2021

185

To a degree it is the opposite in my opinion, and I say that as a pacifist myself in regards to how I act in real life. But in media, the people who refuse to do things to the point of irrationality are annoying, and I don't think it is good writing.

People who consider themselves to be Anime Elitists need to learn what grass is.

Feb 6, 6:22 PM

#55

LotteGiants

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Dec 2019

1166

Since he's already come up I think Vash from Trigun is the perfect encapsulation of the trope and how you feel about him is how you'd feel about just about any pacifist character. As a kid I thought it was dumb and annoying and especially since he just ends up fighting anyway it seemed like a total waste of time. As an adult I understand that there's more complicated reasoning behind it and...still think its mostly just dumb and annoying. Sure, fiction allows us to explore ideas that might not be possible in real life but even in fiction pacifism (or at least commitment to non-lethality) is portrayed as borderline lunacy in almost every instance or something that comes from overwhelming power gained by being a murder machine for some time.

I don't think its impossible to write an interesting story of pacifism but it either requires a lot of set up like season 2 of Vinland saga or it has to be aimed at a certain audience. If a show seems like it might be a cool battle manga or something because other characters are fighting with super powers it will just taint the narrative.

Yesterday, 4:59 PM

#56

S_Yellow

SuperEdgeLordGo

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Feb 2014

1555

I don't think it makes one childish and/or immature because of context. Vash and Kenshin refused to kill and accepted all consequences that came with it. But they didn't refuse to fight for what they believed in. But if a person watched Gundam 00 and thought Princess Marina was right, that I would find childish and immature. She was unbearably naive given the world she lived in.

Yesterday, 5:40 PM

#57

Richard_drizzle

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Apr 2024

410

Anime does do this alot trying to make a whole deal about them being a pacifist just for the characters to do some extra violent shit it's just another trope at this point why fight when you can talk-No-Jutsu. I don't really like the trope that much unless it's used well like Shigeo from Mob Psycho for example.

Yesterday, 7:40 PM

#58

SanguineSeagull

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Apr 2025

I'm not sure if its 1:1 with childishness, but I do believe some forms of pacifism (i.e. not dumb ones) require a bit more of a nuanced view of the world to appreciate.

One example is something like "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." This might sounds like a one liner from a Marvel movie, but it is VERY MUCH real.

If you talk to some Special Ops folks, or people who have survived, or committed, acts of great violence, you might find they lost some of their humanity in a way that will never be restored. I think it has to do with their personal experience of how quickly a human becomes meat. And it is, in many ways, a great loss indeed, which in my opinion can easily justify pacifism.

I know you specified "in fiction" but I think it is very similar.

Does not mean you need to enjoy it, and it can be executed poorly, but I would say a blanket statement that pacifism is boring might indicate you did not consider deeply what experiencing great violence actually does to humans...

Yesterday, 7:51 PM

#59

nyugvo6

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Sep 2008

4612

no, it makes you heterosexual. fr.fr.

馬鹿げた倫理　全部ガラクタで

Yesterday, 8:19 PM

#60

Stanis150

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Apr 2023

422

I don't think pacifist characters are a problem. In fact, most of them have a plausible reason to have such an ideology and can be understood.

The problem usually comes from the authors, because they almost always avoid the negative consequences of such a life position for their character. They almost never put the character in front of a direct choice (either to kill or cruel consequences such as death or mutilation for loved ones or friends). And even they do that - there is always some "third option" that saves the day - and this is an outrageously lazy approach to history.

The Vinland Saga (second season) is a perfect example of how history and the world very conveniently adapt to the worldview of the main character. While Trigan is probably the only exception to this trend (at least among I know) there the hero was given a choice and he eventually made it - and this is exactly one of the reasons why I love this anime, although I do not accept radical pacifism as an ideology.

Yesterday, 10:29 PM

#61

Fukoku

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Apr 2023

2139

There is a difference between pacifism and stupidity/ignorance.

Emperor Il from Akatsuki No Yona is the perfect example. On the surface, he may appear as a pacifist, but if you think about his reign for more than 10 seconds, then it's clear that he was an incompetent leader. He neglected the struggles of the tribes, which resulted in poverty, instability, etc., especially in the Fire Tribe. He outlawed weapons/war completely, which doesn't work because what happens when foreign nations invade? What happens when there's an insurrection in your own kingdom (oh wait, my bad, it's kinda too late to ask that).

So no, Emperor Il was not a pacifist. He was just an ignorant moron who has a moral high ground and doesn't put any actual thought into his decisions.

As for Vinland Saga, Thorfinn changing from vengeful to pacifist was pretty much the whole point. In season 1, teenage Thorfinn was hell-bent on revenge for his deceased father. But his time as a slave mentally broke him, which gave him the opportunity to self-reflect and change. Vinland Saga isn't an anime where everyone's a meathead who solves everything with violence. Now I haven't read much of the manga beyond season 2 finale, so I don't have much to say beyond this.

I would like to end this response with talking about a pacifist who isn't mentioned on the OP that I like, Andromeda Shun from Saint Seiya. He is a pacifist, but he doesn't prioritize it over keeping the world safe from Athena's enemies. Shun understands that sometimes, pacifism/being nice isn't enough, so he will fight if it's a must.

In this way, Andromeda Shun is similar to Aang. Aang is a pacifist, but he understands that pacifism isn't always the answer. He had to confront and fight Fire Lord Ozai, or else the other three nations would be done for.

I hope this helps @ame

FukokuYesterday, 10:35 PM

If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece

2 hours ago

#62

leonardobarba

Offline

May 2017

2398

No.

"A man of peace is not a pacifist."
-- Osho

Mene, mene, tekel, parsin

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does not liking "pacifist" characters make you immature and childish ?

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