Sleipnirr said: Shinichi-Kun said: Hmm? Mafia usually find a weak links in town so they can exploit him/her so they can get them lynched. In the pages before I read something like we were not gonna have 48 hour phases is that true if so how much time do we have left? day 1 2 3 are alll 48 hours, anything after that is 24 hours. Why did you quote this post to ask that question? |
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wen294 said: lmaoAbuHumaid said: Says the guy that never placed a single fcking vote in the entire D1...I think we should agree to lynch someone at least 9 hours before phase change, last minutes lynches don't work on this setup |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Sleipnirr said: ironace said: Also, forgot to ask this question to all you guys who have been mafia in previous games.. who is the ideal target to lynch? How does mafia decide to do this? No one mafia doesnt decide to lycnh. You just let town decide a lynch while clearing yourself by giving bullshit reads. If town decides to lynch your teammate you just make your bullshit read scummier than your scum buddy so you save him without making it obvious. Anyway back to the topic mafia doesnt decide on a lynch town does. (At least thats how it was in my scum games) Mafia can decide lynches, kiznaiver mafia was a good example. Maybe not the best because they tried to bus their teammate but still a prime example right there. It all depends on the players, if lucian was or if he is scum would still lead the game the same way he always does. |
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wen294 said: I kinda thought so, but Gwen quoted it, and it seemed like he thought I said it.lastwhisper31 said: You followed up on the bolded with "two very good points of lucianroy" so it was clear enough that he was the one that said those 2 things.So I'm not gunna change the post cause that's frowned upon. So I'll clarify that in post #463, the bolded statement, which was also quoted by Gwen was not written by me it was written by Lucian, and I was providing my 2¢ on it. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Shinichi-Kun said: Sleipnirr said: In the pages before I read something like we were not gonna have 48 hour phases is that true if so how much time do we have left? day 1 2 3 are alll 48 hours, anything after that is 24 hours. Why did you quote this post to ask that question? because you were online and wanted to get your attention |
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Sleipnirr said: Shinichi-Kun said: day 1 2 3 are alll 48 hours, anything after that is 24 hours. Why did you quote this post to ask that question? because you were online and wanted to get your attention Fair enough i guess lol |
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Red_Salmon said: SuzakuTsubasa said: Hi~ There has been quite some pages on day 1 already. I have a quick question: the votes on Salmon were just because we need to start somewhere or was there another reason? Seems like not much happened this day yet. Hi hi :) welcome aboard. The votes on me were on the basis of my apparent tonal shift from 354 to 361. You can hear Lucian talking about it at 462 and my defense to it at 554 onwards. True. The game's more active when im asleep :p at like 9-12 hours from now. Time zones are brutal, most comments for me come between 3am-8am, and im sleeping |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Sleipnirr said: ironace said: ok so ..... So I have been thinking for a while, why was suzune specifically targeted?? Its safe to say that people like me and abu are easier pickings that can be rid of later in the game.Even inactives are easier targets for later game. From my pov, wouldnt lucian or gwen or even zymf be better targets?(I will just focus on lucian for now since he was the mos vocal) Was she onto something like gwen said? Ill backread a little and see her posts. But for now, I have a few theories, -suzune was onto something that may have been more important than it seemed and she was quite dangerous. -lucian himself is scum and is directing votes here and there. -or killing lucian would mean that he was onto something and salmon is indeed scum...it can also be the opposite, lucian is far away from the correct reading and the mafia are letting him do as he pleases as it will just hurt town. So for now I think we need a sacrifice. vote:red_salmon If he is indeed scum then the mafia just tried to save him by letting lucian go free. If he is not scum, then I dont mind lynching lucian the next day. As many have noticed, him doing the most work(and apparently doing the most work out of us) is also kinda bad for town. We ourselves arent using our heads as much as lucian is, because he's mostly thinking for us. Dunno why but i feel the game may be more ...dunno the right word...easy?...if lucian becomes less vocal or posts like zymf as then we all will HAVE to start to think for ourselves. Wait why did you mention Salmon as 'sacrifice' ? That wording would mean that in the subcouncios level you think salmon is town but you are voting him knowing he will turn town. Its almost like you are white knighting. Was that a possible scum slip anyone? Ohh god Kasai, Its the live mafia all over again? "We know chad is town but we will lynch him because its the best option because I trust his vengeful shot"... and then you won lmao |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Sleipnirr said: Shinichi-Kun said: Hmm? Mafia usually find a weak links in town so they can exploit him/her so they can get them lynched. In the pages before I read something like we were not gonna have 48 hour phases is that true if so how much time do we have left? 10am est, no what will chang is that the night cycles will be increased or lessoned by how far away 10 am est is from that point. Edit: To clarify, Grapefruit wants to keep all day cycles starting at 10am, and since day cycles end once a majority lynch goes off, he will increase or decrease the length of the night cycle to optimally allow the next day cycle to start again at 10am eastern time. |
_WispJul 30, 2017 8:46 AM
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
| Apologies for the massive delays. Vote Count 2.1 LucianRoy (1): Albertinodias AlberintoDias (1): Zymf Red_Salmon (4): Abu, LucianRoy, ironace, Shinichi-Kun LastWhisper31 (1): Gwendolly AbuHumaid (1): Wen294 Not voting (6): aa-dono, SuzakuTsubasa, Red_Salmon, Sleipnirr, LastWhisper31, The_PyroMaani Time until end of D2 Please alert me with any inaccuracies in the vote count. @aa-dono @ironace @AlbertinoDias @SuzakaTsubasa @Gwendolly @lastwhisper31 @AbuHumaid @Sleipnirr @Wen294 @The_Pyromaani @Red_Salmon @Shinichi-Kun @LucianRoy @Zymf After D3 day phases will go from 48 hours to 24. |
Grapefruit21Jul 30, 2017 12:24 PM
| Because he is a leading player (and he always is). People have a tendency to town read players with a high vote count and who has a reputation of being a "good player" (Lucian, Logic and maybe Suzune-chan, Jackrito and Crossbell). I on the other hand have a natural warryness towards these players and I am reluctant to sorting them solely on their general pro-towniness behaviour, which I know they can fake well. LucianRoy said: It wouldn't matter if you had made twice as many posts. I wasn't lacking content to form a different read, but instead time and effort to analyse and process it all. When I'm backreading, I'm skimming through most of your posts, because nothing really stick out to me. However, when I'm forming reads, I have to pause and dissect each single post.Neutral reads tend to be NAI, but in the context of me, someone who was probably one of the more active players yesterday, I am quite surprised Zymf hasn't sorted me, (although we did NL D1). Notice please, that neutral isn't the same as null to me, and neither was it in my reads list. I did look into some of your posts and I have responded to some of them. But so far from the amount I've analysed, the good and the bad has more or less cancelled eachother out. I think his town read on Salmon is unsubstantial. Reading solely off tone doesn't cut it for someone who was 3 votes from lynch D1 imo. Red_Salmon is the player that I have looked into the most and it isn't "just" his tone that has given me a town read. I did an ISO on her early posts in #489, which explains my initial town read. What I haven't looked much into is your case against Red_Salmon, but while skimming through I read your #360 as weak, Red_Salmon's defence as townish in tone and your subsequent posts as a little stubborn.(this might change when I re-read it later (after I finish backreading)) I don't like his vote nor his scumread on roberto either. I don't see him blatantly pocketing me, nor do I feel pocketed. Perhaps that's because you see it as natural that people blindly follow you...I said that he was obviously pocketing you in my #489, but I didn't quote where he was pocketing you. In #374 AlbertinoDias says "(well i can also say i'm not into you Lucian right now, doesn't mean you're off the hook)" - To me, this translates to "I want you to know that I think you are definitely town, but don't think it's just because I'm pocketing you!". Also in #382 he says "I do understand what you're saying and maybe you are actually right but, i don't think it will work, because of what i said up there". This looks to me like scum who is affraid to defy a leading player like you Lucian, and that only makes it even more scummy that he is trying to validate his vote on Togs instead of Salmon by numbers alone. |
Gwendolly said: yo can we lynch lastwhisper after all? I just have this feeling.... What feeling? I can't sheep gut unfortunately. --- Shinichi-Kun said: i do think hes a viable lynch target if thats what your asking, so i guess i do in a sense, but there is also about 34 hours left so lets see what abu has to say.. Did i specifically state Salmon was town defending himself? Also reword that sentence im confused af. Also you dig yourself deeper too lmfao, either that or mafia night kills you XD. I missed a word, but the question was more to see how you reacted. You still sound very non-committal for someone you're currently voting, and you haven't really interacted with them a huge amount. --- ironace said: So I have been thinking for a while, why was suzune specifically targeted?? Its safe to say that people like me and abu are easier pickings that can be rid of later in the game.Even inactives are easier targets for later game. From my pov, wouldnt lucian or gwen or even zymf be better targets?(I will just focus on lucian for now since he was the mos vocal) Was she onto something like gwen said? Ill backread a little and see her posts. Are you familiar with the concept of Wifom? But for now, I have a few theories, -suzune was onto something that may have been more important than it seemed and she was quite dangerous. -lucian himself is scum and is directing votes here and there. -or killing lucian would mean that he was onto something and salmon is indeed scum...it can also be the opposite, lucian is far away from the correct reading and the mafia are letting him do as he pleases as it will just hurt town. So for now I think we need a sacrifice. vote:red_salmon "hey guys, look at all these theories I have about Lucian" >votes with Lucian If he is indeed scum then the mafia just tried to save him by letting lucian go free. If he is not scum, then I dont mind lynching lucian the next day. As many have noticed, him doing the most work(and apparently doing the most work out of us) is also kinda bad for town. "don't mind me, I'm just going to line up this lynch on this guy I'm sheeping and blame a townflip all on him" And yet people sheep. And it's also our first lynch, like, wtf. This would be considered a pre-associative, because I'm finding you scummy for info I don't know, but it sounds like you actually do know this information... ??? We ourselves arent using our heads as much as lucian is, because he's mostly thinking for us. Dunno why but i feel the game may be more ...dunno the right word...easy?...if lucian becomes less vocal or posts like zymf as then we all will HAVE to start to think for ourselves. What's keepin you from getting those gears turning? Vote: Ironace --- @Lastwhisper, what's your opinion of post 543? --- Lmao wen was about to hammer Salmon into the ground. --- s/o to wen actually analyzing me vs Salmon in post 546. --- Red_Salmon said: Replying to @LucianRoy from #462 Well, yeah, it was D1, and my reasons for voting you were pretty solid imo. If you're town, who was the scum on your train? I'd be more inclined to point at ironace, their vote at #370 was pretty weak. Easily being manipulated >.> though I'd want to look more into Abu this phase. Will make an iso on him. And what about their #539 vote on you? --- wen294 said: LucianRoy said: Why this vote change? I don't like it.Ahh yes, the classic neutral read on me. After you analyzed so many of my posts. --- Believe it or not, I'm still ok with lynching Salmon. Vote: Red Salmon Now we have some names to look since Red's alignment has been the topic of heated debate. Your Abu vote sparked some discussion, then you got some opposition and you changed your vote back to salmon... I only have 1 vote, and I want to see someone eat rope today. I also want to push multiple people. It's like your abu vote didn't work out as intended so you go back to safe back-up train. This would make sense if you read salmon as town, otherwise it's a jump in logic. If you're reading both Abu and Salmon as scum independently, why can't I have it both ways? Just spending this day phase sitting on salmon votes isn't gonna do a whole lot for us in terms of information gathering during the day. Actually it has, the dude has come out of the wood works, and is the leading train. We have names to look at should they flip town, we have names to look at should they flip scum. We have two days of wagoning to work with. Definitely one of the juicier lynchs. --- wen294 said: Can't say i like your confidence though. Just feels like you're spending more attention on making us think you're town that actually lynching scum. The only thing it's doing for me is making it harder for me to take your posts at face value because you probably spend time to review and set up every single post before making them. This feels like real paranoia. And yes, I do happen to preview my longer posts, and I do re-read them for spelling mistakes. --- @Lastwhisper31, read on wen. --- ironace said: this is why im saying we need to lynch red salmon so that it will become a little more apparent that is lucian scum or not This guy tho. Okay, ironace obviously reads me and Salmon as unaligned pairs? Right? Why is he being unclear about who he reads as scum between us? Reads as highly opportunistic imo Nobody reads Salmon and me as TvT? Everyone just thinks we're unaligned? --- Red_Salmon said: I'm of the opinion that a scum reveals himself scum more and more as he talks while a town reveals himself town as he talks more and more. Lucian will definitely be a lynch target D3. I'll have more stuff to build up a case on him. People really do like lining up lynchs around here. Even the lynchs. --- @Lastwhisper31, what's your take on this? --- @Shinichi-kun, how do you read this post? *nvm, read 599. --- I live off of tap water and Doc wifom. Especially in closed set-ups. It used to happen a lot, it might be a number above 15 or 20, then the general meta shifted. Now I can live to D7 as town with three remaining people total. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
Red_Salmon said: ISO on @AbuHumaid D1: #65 "Oh shit it started" #70 "LucianRoy I'm on phone and not caught up, will get to you later" #122 "aight i'm here, so what's the beef?" Nothing telling so far #162 "it's not like I'm lurking on purpose..." But others say that hes not a newby and lurked a lot in his previous games. #167 says he has no reads. asks for my reads #175 generally agrees with most of the people. Doesn't really have his own opinions. Asked for explanation of my reads. #176 "when did i imply otherwise?" agrees that hes played many games before #335 "ouch, why so much hate?" in response to talk of his inactivity #409 "I think we should agree to lynch someone at least 9 hours before phase change" D2: #414 "damn" changes his vote to me. says nothing. Just lazy. #418 tries to defend his sheeping with "there's no better lynch now" #419 asks for explanation of L1 and L2 #423 Defends why he sheeped by saying that any lynch is a good lynch. Showing zero motivation to try to find a person he might think is scummy. I think he doesn't have any reads at all at this point either. #458 I gotta agree with LW here. He used the same words that he used. Generally speaking, imo, his actions don't really say that he's scummy. He just pops in at times, looks at a few posts on that page (and that page alone) says stuff and then leaves. The only thing we can say for sure is that he's lazy. If the reason for voting him is #414 then I must say that his sheep at 414 is nothing out of the ordinary. Hes just being lazy and going with the flow. So this will be my counter analysis, these are kinda what I like doing the most in mafia games. Plus I learned how to link post numbers and I was really exciting to try it out haha. #65 So if we are going to put this quote at the fore front of our arguement, then its only fair to add that this #88 also happened, Im not saying that the usefulness of these two players is the same, I just thought it be something to point out. #70 and #122, He tells Lucian hes out caught up and will get to posting later, but doesnt again show up till #122, and states so whats the beef, which makes it obvious he read it, and instead of coming to his own conclusion on it, he'd rather use someone elses reasoning. Still not the biggest tells ever, can just be seen as laziness. But I like to look at both sides of everything. #162, not gunna link it because I've had the same experience as stated by others, that he def lurks a lot. and I've only ever played one full game with him because he opt'd out of the other game because he was bored. One thing I can say is that he really amped up his game towards the end of the "Morning After Game" #167, again he states he has no reads and asks other people for theirs. Again there is also nothing wrong with this, but there has to be a point where its like, is he really just lazy or just not trying. #175 and #176, again in 175 he states he doesnt have any reads, but wants to know Salmons reads, again it feels like instead of building his own case hes trying to built off the cases of other people, but tbh some people do play like early on, and I am very guilty of this. In 176, he pretty much boils it down to being lack of experience in a previous post, but then makes a snarky comment towards Shin saying thats actually not the case. Again, If its not lack of experience, then why does it feel like hes trying hard to use that as an excuse. #335, not gunna link this one, just gunna state that it seems like abu only quotes posts that question is usefulness and inactivity rather then him giving his 2 cents how he believes the state of the game is and what his reads currently are. #409, He didnt seem at all worried about the lynch day 1, and now he wants to insure there's a lynch day 2 by saying town should come to a consensus at least 9 hours prior to the end of the day 2 cycle. Questions to ask, what happened between day 1 and day 2, to spark this change in direction for him, is it because he really is town and wants to actually get a scum lynched, or because hes hoping town will slip and lynch a townie if he makes this lynch seem urgent. #414, I stated before that many sites, yes ive been reading up on scum tells because im trying to improve, say that posts like this are scum tells. Now I can't put to much lean on that, because I dont know what the percentage of these kinda posts actually being scum are, and pro games probably doesnt happen very much, and the fact that I did this a lot in my early games and I was not scum haha. Now why was he so eager to start the train on Red_Salmon again, after making no previous input about it, Lucian called him out on sheeping when it is most def sheeping, and I know sheeping lmao, because Im guilty of it, which he defends with 418, stating know better choice, where did this conclusion come from, and yet again he only ever seems to answer posts to defend himself, but I am also guilty of that its only fair that I state this because I cant say someone has scum vibes from something they are doing if Im argueing for myself the very same thing and saying im not scum. #419, again asks for explanation of L2 and L1, possible he actually is lazy, but how much is he worth now, am I saying we should lynch him off that, no, because they were admitting we think hes town, and only an idiot would lynch off that, @shinichi-kun ya im talking to you bro..., honestly idk why he would ask this, there have been so very clear explanations of this through out the discussion, scum do tend to miss information, I was told that a lot in the psycho pass game. #423, Uses what I told him to defend his reasoning for lynching Red_Salmon, ok, stepping up his game? or trying to look like hes actively trying? #458, he states hes been doing this and I bring nothing new, am I missing something here??? Big post, maybe ill try doing my own ISO. #Evidence in conclusive, can't evaluate where to place him. Hes everywhere and no where at the same time if that makes any sense lol. Edit:@LucianRoy, I noticed that you wanted my thoughts on Red Salmons ISO, I hope this helps. Gunna try to get to your other questions before I go to work. Idk If ill have time to fully analyze Awa's come back post, but ill try to post my thoughts on Wen before I go. |
_WispJul 30, 2017 10:06 AM
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
| Thank you Salmon and Wen for the quick summary~ Sleipnirr said: ironace said: ok so ..... So I have been thinking for a while, why was suzune specifically targeted?? Its safe to say that people like me and abu are easier pickings that can be rid of later in the game.Even inactives are easier targets for later game. From my pov, wouldnt lucian or gwen or even zymf be better targets?(I will just focus on lucian for now since he was the mos vocal) Was she onto something like gwen said? Ill backread a little and see her posts. But for now, I have a few theories, -suzune was onto something that may have been more important than it seemed and she was quite dangerous. -lucian himself is scum and is directing votes here and there. -or killing lucian would mean that he was onto something and salmon is indeed scum...it can also be the opposite, lucian is far away from the correct reading and the mafia are letting him do as he pleases as it will just hurt town. So for now I think we need a sacrifice. vote:red_salmon If he is indeed scum then the mafia just tried to save him by letting lucian go free. If he is not scum, then I dont mind lynching lucian the next day. As many have noticed, him doing the most work(and apparently doing the most work out of us) is also kinda bad for town. We ourselves arent using our heads as much as lucian is, because he's mostly thinking for us. Dunno why but i feel the game may be more ...dunno the right word...easy?...if lucian becomes less vocal or posts like zymf as then we all will HAVE to start to think for ourselves. Wait why did you mention Salmon as 'sacrifice' ? That wording would mean that in the subcouncios level you think salmon is town but you are voting him knowing he will turn town. Its almost like you are white knighting. Was that a possible scum slip anyone? The wording makes it sound like he thinks Salmon is town, but a scum slip feels a bit of a stretch. I'm not too sure. Vote Lynch: Albertinodias I don't really get your vote on Lucian, and I think the idea of lynching an inactive so we need one less replacement would most likely make town waste a lynch. Maybe that was the point? |
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Zymf said: Because he is a leading player (and he always is). People have a tendency to town read players with a high vote count and who has a reputation of being a "good player" (Lucian, Logic and maybe Suzune-chan, Jackrito and Crossbell). I on the other hand have a natural warryness towards these players and I am reluctant to sorting them solely on their general pro-towniness behaviour, which I know they can fake well. LucianRoy said: It wouldn't matter if you had made twice as many posts. I wasn't lacking content to form a different read, but instead time and effort to analyse and process it all. When I'm backreading, I'm skimming through most of your posts, because nothing really stick out to me. However, when I'm forming reads, I have to pause and dissect each single post.Neutral reads tend to be NAI, but in the context of me, someone who was probably one of the more active players yesterday, I am quite surprised Zymf hasn't sorted me, (although we did NL D1). Notice please, that neutral isn't the same as null to me, and neither was it in my reads list. I did look into some of your posts and I have responded to some of them. But so far from the amount I've analysed, the good and the bad has more or less cancelled eachother out. I think his town read on Salmon is unsubstantial. Reading solely off tone doesn't cut it for someone who was 3 votes from lynch D1 imo. Red_Salmon is the player that I have looked into the most and it isn't "just" his tone that has given me a town read. I did an ISO on her early posts in #489, which explains my initial town read. What I haven't looked much into is your case against Red_Salmon, but while skimming through I read your #360 as weak, Red_Salmon's defence as townish in tone and your subsequent posts as a little stubborn.(this might change when I re-read it later (after I finish backreading)) I don't like his vote nor his scumread on roberto either. I don't see him blatantly pocketing me, nor do I feel pocketed. Perhaps that's because you see it as natural that people blindly follow you...I said that he was obviously pocketing you in my #489, but I didn't quote where he was pocketing you. In #374 AlbertinoDias says "(well i can also say i'm not into you Lucian right now, doesn't mean you're off the hook)" - To me, this translates to "I want you to know that I think you are definitely town, but don't think it's just because I'm pocketing you!". Also in #382 he says "I do understand what you're saying and maybe you are actually right but, i don't think it will work, because of what i said up there". This looks to me like scum who is affraid to defy a leading player like you Lucian, and that only makes it even more scummy that he is trying to validate his vote on Togs instead of Salmon by numbers alone. Natural warryness, lol, ya same goes for you, Guardian Angel my ass. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Zymf said: Because he is a leading player (and he always is). People have a tendency to town read players with a high vote count and who has a reputation of being a "good player" (Lucian, Logic and maybe Suzune-chan, Jackrito and Crossbell). I on the other hand have a natural warryness towards these players and I am reluctant to sorting them solely on their general pro-towniness behaviour, which I know they can fake well. Am I being 'pro-town' or am I actually being 'town'? LucianRoy said: It wouldn't matter if you had made twice as many posts. I wasn't lacking content to form a different read, but instead time and effort to analyse and process it all. When I'm backreading, I'm skimming through most of your posts, because nothing really stick out to me. However, when I'm forming reads, I have to pause and dissect each single post.Neutral reads tend to be NAI, but in the context of me, someone who was probably one of the more active players yesterday, I am quite surprised Zymf hasn't sorted me, (although we did NL D1). Notice please, that neutral isn't the same as null to me, and neither was it in my reads list. I did look into some of your posts and I have responded to some of them. But so far from the amount I've analysed, the good and the bad has more or less cancelled eachother out. Cancel eachother out? I think his town read on Salmon is unsubstantial. Reading solely off tone doesn't cut it for someone who was 3 votes from lynch D1 imo. Red_Salmon is the player that I have looked into the most and it isn't "just" his tone that has given me a town read. I did an ISO on her early posts in #489, which explains my initial town read.Okay, some of this in your iso feels more NAI than AI. But the questions in 165 and 181 do look like gamesolving questions. They also resemble questions I asked earlier, so you may have a point here, but I'm still sticking to my guns since it's basically a D1 lynch, and I would still encourage you to go over the interactions between them and me. I feel like those are more telling. I don't like his vote nor his scumread on roberto either. I don't see him blatantly pocketing me, nor do I feel pocketed. Perhaps that's because you see it as natural that people blindly follow you...I said that he was obviously pocketing you in my #489, but I didn't quote where he was pocketing you. In #374 AlbertinoDias says "(well i can also say i'm not into you Lucian right now, doesn't mean you're off the hook)" - To me, this translates to "I want you to know that I think you are definitely town, but don't think it's just because I'm pocketing you!". Also in #382 he says "I do understand what you're saying and maybe you are actually right but, i don't think it will work, because of what i said up there". This looks to me like scum who is affraid to defy a leading player like you Lucian, and that only makes it even more scummy that he is trying to validate his vote on Togs instead of Salmon by numbers alone. If he's so intent on pocketing me, why is he voting me? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| @LucianRoy, so What I noticed is that Wen seems sure that Abu would flip scum, and that Ironace is very sure that either you or Red will flip mafia, idk where his conclusive evidence that states that you and red cant somehow both be town. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
lastwhisper31 said: @LucianRoy, so What I noticed is that Wen seems sure that Abu would flip scum, and that Ironace is very sure that either you or Red will flip mafia, idk where his conclusive evidence that states that you and red cant somehow both be town. I'm more interested in hearing what you think those posts said about their alignments. |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| @Wen294 You have a somewhat decent counter arguement to Red_Salmons ISO, so let me ask you where do you stand on him. Do you believe he is 100% scum, or just a lazy town, and Im very ok with accidently lynching town for information, but Im not gunna lynch someone that we are 50/50 with, I went through a painful experience in live mafia where everyone was ok with lynching a pretty much confirmed townie for information. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
| #539 @ironace That is pretty simple reasoning and it's a very typical conclusion to reach. But especially considering your level of experience, it seems very genuine and town-induced, which gives me a town read on you. #546 @wen294 Remember that Red_Salmon is a new player and so, isn't a bit of insecurity very natural? Shinichi-Kun said: Have you ever seen Lucian "jump out of his roots"? And did he happen to be scum at that time?Lucian is a pretty open book mafia player, so allow of the stuff he does is pretty NAI. It's only when he jumps out of his roots that something seems off, which I havent really noticed yet. If not, then I don't think we can sort Lucian by that meta. Gwendolly said: yo can we lynch lastwhisper after all? I just have this feeling.... Gwendolly said: When you make statements like these, please explain properly.I want to make sense of something...sooo.. What feeling and what "something"? |
LucianRoy said: lastwhisper31 said: @LucianRoy, so What I noticed is that Wen seems sure that Abu would flip scum, and that Ironace is very sure that either you or Red will flip mafia, idk where his conclusive evidence that states that you and red cant somehow both be town. I'm more interested in hearing what you think those posts said about their alignments. Which post in particular of Ironace? #578, Honestly Imo, like this is all my opinion, but it seems to me that Wen is trying really hard to get Abu lynched and most if not all posts by abu that Salman Iso'd can easily be seen both way, which makes them pretty nai, so why is he trying to disregard what Salmon believes, is it because he reads abu as scum or he thinks salmon is trying to deflect people from her/his own train. There are so many ways to look at this, and I really cant come to a conclusion on who is coming off scummier. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
SuzakuTsubasa said: Because he already explained his townread on Lucian here.Why do you ask about his townlean on Wisp but not about his lean on Lucian? I just realized he gave reasons for Wisp's there. Missed it before. |
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Zymf said: #539 @ironace That is pretty simple reasoning and it's a very typical conclusion to reach. But especially considering your level of experience, it seems very genuine and town-induced, which gives me a town read on you. Ohhh, does it? Does Alberto strike you as new as well? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| @LucianRoy, between Salmon, Ironace, Wen, and Abu, its very possible that one of them is scum, i'll say about a 40% chance. Once I get back from you work I'll let you know what I think of Dono's post, and where ill take my stand. Since we have approx, 20 hours left till the phase change, I want to give a heads up and let you know I'll be at work for 7 and a half hours today, but I will try to chime in as much as possible. |
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
LucianRoy said: Zymf said: #539 @ironace That is pretty simple reasoning and it's a very typical conclusion to reach. But especially considering your level of experience, it seems very genuine and town-induced, which gives me a town read on you. Ohhh, does it? Does Alberto strike you as new as well? Zymf and Togs both like to use level of experience to justify town reads *that I've noticed, if Alberto is really new, then I can say that his posts are pretty damn wild for being new. Also slightly hard to understand lol. Edit: added the last sentence Edit 2: added *that I've noticed, for clarification |
_WispJul 30, 2017 10:53 AM
| blinddate she was never awake even with her eyes wide open never where she longed to be and if you’d meet her just know you were on a blind date with a dreamer |
Red_Salmon said: I can agree with this somewhat. I think it's alright that he's overly cautious at those who read him as town. At first I thought it can't be help that his focus was on Wisp since that townread did seem out of nowhere. But just as Wisp gain votes, he changed it to Togs. It's strange. I can't say he's avoiding that train since it doesn't seem like he doubted Wisp as scum. So it feels like he's just avoiding that train.unvote (I thought I had unvoted my RVS. Mustve forgot about it) Halfway through my read from Page 3 onwards I had started suspecting Lucian as scum with how he had managed to get everyone's eyes off of him and onto LW just as a train had started to form on him. That too when the reason on voting on LW was weak. Plus being wary of people who have been town reading him calling it as white-knighting by scum is suspicious too. He seems overly aware of it. Rather uncomfortable by it. Normally one wouldn't even look too much into town reads. But nothing he says is specifically scummy. Then he asked people what they thought of the sleip vs his discussion, which is more towny. Was gonna vote on him but can't take chances right now. As for LW, he certainly did over react to the pressure. But not in the scummy way I have to actually get to the final lynch to be sure though ^^" @everyone Sorry for being so overly delayed. I have limited and difficult time to access PC till Wednesday (your Tuesday) |
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LucianRoy said: I disagree on that. I think it's harder to be conclusive as town. Personally, I'd be more careful since I wouldn't want to be caught up tunneling or umm (that thing where you find one scummy post and then see everything about the player as scummy without considering if the action would be done as town).I am burdened by proficiency. --- AlbertinoDias said: so red has 3 votes, and is forming a train, so, summarize why you think i should go with this train and not go with togs?? (well i can also say i'm not into you Lucian right now, doesn't mean you're off the hook) but i think the inactive strategy for day 1 is the best option we have right now... (and i have time so i can "change my vote last second") :) I don't like how when I called him out, he tried to defuse the conflict by reading me town instead of address why I voted him, he also backtracked on his words because he clearly says he was considering voting me in one post, and then says I'm town in the next. I feel like town would be more conclusive in their reads, especially on someone like myself. He also has no scumreads and did not revote. OOG: At least what's water? |
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AlbertinoDias said: Huh? This......... I don't understand this logic... why would voting Togs be a good idea? There was only wen on his train and you said it yourself - you have 30 mins.LucianRoy said: I am burdened by proficiency. --- I don't like how when I called him out, he tried to defuse the conflict by reading me town instead of address why I voted him, he also backtracked on his words because he clearly says he was considering voting me in one post, and then says I'm town in the next. I feel like town would be more conclusive in their reads, especially on someone like myself. He also has no scumreads and did not revote. I do understand what you're saying and maybe you are actually right but, i don't think it will work, because of what i said up there, we need 3 people to come online, in under 30min to vote for Salmon... so that's why i think everyone should play it safe and fo for togs right now, it's my opinion, unvote vote: Togs (last post seen #379) |
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lastwhisper31 said: Aww I just noticed this. Thanks for the welcome ^^aa-dono said: Glad to hear that!I'm baaack. It's gonna take me some time to catch up |
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Sleipnirr said: +1 Good job.Wait why did you mention Salmon as 'sacrifice' ? That wording would mean that in the subcouncios level you think salmon is town but you are voting him knowing he will turn town. Its almost like you are white knighting. Was that a possible scum slip anyone? Grapefruit21 said: Hmm.. It seems like Red_Salmon is likely the only player we can hope to actually lynch with this lynch lock system?Vote Count 2.1 LucianRoy (1): Albertinodias AlberintoDias (1): Zymf Red_Salmon (4): Abu, LucianRoy, ironace, Shinichi-Kun LastWhisper31 (1): Gwendolly Not voting (7): aa-dono, SuzakuTsubasa, Red_Salmon, Sleipnirr, LastWhisper31, The_PyroMaani, AbuHumaid Though I am probably currently the biggest opposition to this train, I still prefer a Red_Salmon lynch over No Lynch. As previously stated, I intend to go back and re-evaluate Red_Salmon, but I need to take a break first after all this backreading... @Red_Salmon I think you should claim. lastwhisper31 said: Looooooooooooooool XD (I was so damn proud of my own ingenuity in that claim)Natural warryness, lol, ya same goes for you, Guardian Angel my ass. @LucianRoy There is a clear difference between how we scum hunt. You search for inconsistencies and flip-floppyness, therefore you suspect Red_Salmon and ironace. I instead look at their general approach, their tone and try to guess their underlying intentions, which is why I sorta trust them. (Have you noticed how often I use the word "genuine", because I have? x.x) #617: I will probably also expand on my read on you at the same time as I expand my read on Red_Salmon... #625: Yes. Albertino does stike me as new, but in a more scummy way. |
Gwendolly said: Oh. that's embarrassing... I meant to say I have 9 pages to type about.. not I'll type 9 pages long. Even I have no energy for that wall. Gomennasaisoooooooo.....I'm just gonna place this here vote: aa-dono You said you'll type 9 pages? Can't wait to see @Red_Salmon aside from your defence, what do you think of the current situation? @ironace where you at? Didnt you wanna poke salmon and shinichi? |
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Zymf said: +1Shinichi-Kun said: Why would something like this be a problem? In that case there would be plenty to gain in terms of VCA on Day 2. The problem with a quick togs vote is it guarantees a somewhat easy place for scum to hide on don't you think? Don't be so affraid of the mafia's sheeping or bussing - Let them do it and then catch them afterwards. |
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Grapefruit21 said: You didn't count me, i voted for AbuHeman.Apologies for the massive delays. Vote Count 2.1 LucianRoy (1): Albertinodias AlberintoDias (1): Zymf Red_Salmon (4): Abu, LucianRoy, ironace, Shinichi-Kun LastWhisper31 (1): Gwendolly Not voting (7): aa-dono, SuzakuTsubasa, Red_Salmon, Sleipnirr, LastWhisper31, The_PyroMaani, AbuHumaid Time until end of D2 Please alert me with any inaccuracies in the vote count. @aa-dono @ironace @AlbertinoDias @SuzakaTsubasa @Gwendolly @lastwhisper31 @AbuHumaid @Sleipnirr @Wen294 @The_Pyromaani @Red_Salmon @Shinichi-Kun @LucianRoy @Zymf After D3 day phases will go from 48 hours to 24. You also counted Abu both for his vote on salmon and as a non-voter. |
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lastwhisper31 said: LucianRoy said: I'm more interested in hearing what you think those posts said about their alignments. Which post in particular of Ironace? #578, Honestly Imo, like this is all my opinion, but it seems to me that Wen is trying really hard to get Abu lynched and most if not all posts by abu that Salman Iso'd can easily be seen both way, which makes them pretty nai, so why is he trying to disregard what Salmon believes, is it because he reads abu as scum or he thinks salmon is trying to deflect people from her/his own train. There are so many ways to look at this, and I really cant come to a conclusion on who is coming off scummier. 543 specifically. @Gwendolly, take on this post by last? --- I agree with this pool, all except Wen. --- @Gwendolly, what are your thoughts on this post? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
| Okay I'm here now and probably for the next 5 hours too or more ( the whole evening okay). Since you've all been diligently working on a case it actually gives some material to work with. So finally I can look into something; it'll take me some time, 'cause I might start getting serious now :)) Not that I wasnt serious to begin with but rather lazy heh |
| <3 |
Gwendolly said: This is quite right.Also your voters already left you alone, so I'm guessing they are done. But things never really cleared up. Lucy's initial suspicion on Red was due to him calling out the Wisp-read. Lucian actually said that he did not think the read was weak. And the way he said it gave off confidence. But if he was confident with his Wisp-read at the point, it was scummy that he pursued Red at EoD1 even though staying at Wisp might have better chances at securing a lynch. Either Wisp's one lucky cockroach, or he's being protected (still cockroach xD ). Sacrifice? Do you have other reasons to believe Red is scum? |
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ironace said: ok so ..... So I have been thinking for a while, why was suzune specifically targeted?? Its safe to say that people like me and abu are easier pickings that can be rid of later in the game.Even inactives are easier targets for later game. From my pov, wouldnt lucian or gwen or even zymf be better targets?(I will just focus on lucian for now since he was the mos vocal) Was she onto something like gwen said? Ill backread a little and see her posts. But for now, I have a few theories, -suzune was onto something that may have been more important than it seemed and she was quite dangerous. -lucian himself is scum and is directing votes here and there. -or killing lucian would mean that he was onto something and salmon is indeed scum...it can also be the opposite, lucian is far away from the correct reading and the mafia are letting him do as he pleases as it will just hurt town. I think easy answer wai suzu was targeted instead you or abu is due to fact she is fearsome and good and is threat to mafia much more than you or abu for example. |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~  |
ironace said: I rarely decide on night kill as scum. Usually just leave it to my buddies. Unless there's confirmed town. Then I'll get everyone to agree on killing confirmed town x)Also, forgot to ask this question to all you guys who have been mafia in previous games.. who is the ideal target to lynch? How does mafia decide to do this? There's more than 1 mafia though, so it's hard to reach a conclusion for who they decide to kill or why. Especially for the first few phases. |
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lastwhisper31 said: Wait who are we talking about now?@Wen294 You have a somewhat decent counter arguement to Red_Salmons ISO, so let me ask you where do you stand on him. Do you believe he is 100% scum, or just a lazy town, and Im very ok with accidently lynching town for information, but Im not gunna lynch someone that we are 50/50 with, I went through a painful experience in live mafia where everyone was ok with lynching a pretty much confirmed townie for information. Abu or Salmon? First of all noteworthy: I hate questions having something to do with 100%. You can never be 100% sure of something. Even if i'd be so sure of something i'd bet money on it i would still never say that it'll 100% be that result. Anyways, if it's about Abu: If i was a weak vigilante i would shoot him. That's how i feel about it. If it's about Salmon, i myself kinda feel like he's such a low hanging fruit that he's basically touching the ground. Combining that with the fact that i really don't think Abu would bus Salmon like that in a world where they're both scum i really do have my reservations. I can see a salmon lynch being quite informative but i would rather see an abu lynch. As you said, lynching somebody just for information is not the best way to go about things. Especially since the more townies we lose the lower our chances are of actually getting a lynch. Even if we have intel, if we can't succeed a lynch then it's worthless. (unless we have vig) |
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LucianRoy said: lastwhisper31 said: Which post in particular of Ironace? #578, Honestly Imo, like this is all my opinion, but it seems to me that Wen is trying really hard to get Abu lynched and most if not all posts by abu that Salman Iso'd can easily be seen both way, which makes them pretty nai, so why is he trying to disregard what Salmon believes, is it because he reads abu as scum or he thinks salmon is trying to deflect people from her/his own train. There are so many ways to look at this, and I really cant come to a conclusion on who is coming off scummier. 543 specifically. @Gwendolly, take on this post by last? --- I agree with this pool, all except Wen. --- @Gwendolly, what are your thoughts on this post? I'm having a dejavu right now (with Phaze in the Danganronpa game was it?). I think he might have gotten help to write this. Perhaps from you? Because why are you asking me this? Because I voted for him? (I just flipped thru btw I'll be getting into details later) |
| <3 |
ironace said: Also, forgot to ask this question to all you guys who have been mafia in previous games.. who is the ideal target to lynch? How does mafia decide to do this? Personally how i would decide kill target is based on numbers and algorithm. I mostly would stare player list in op and start make some calculations who would be who and start picking off people that way. |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~ |
ironace said: Also, forgot to ask this question to all you guys who have been mafia in previous games.. who is the ideal target to lynch? How does mafia decide to do this? Why? Thinking of your next NK? |
| <3 |
wen294 said: Oh. I wonder why the way you phrase things is easier to understand..Red_Salmon said: unvote (I thought I had unvoted my RVS. Mustve forgot about it) Halfway through my read from Page 3 onwards I had started suspecting Lucian as scum with how he had managed to get everyone's eyes off of him and onto LW just as a train had started to form on him. That too when the reason on voting on LW was weak. Plus being wary of people who have been town reading him calling it as white-knighting by scum is suspicious too. He seems overly aware of it. Rather uncomfortable by it. Normally one wouldn't even look too much into town reads. But nothing he says is specifically scummy. Then he asked people what they thought of the sleip vs his discussion, which is more towny. Was gonna vote on him but can't take chances right now. As for LW, he certainly did over react to the pressure. But not in the scummy way How this post comes across to me: "This is scummy and that is scummy too but nothing he says is scummy. I wanted to vote him but i'll not do that after all" Then you proceed not to commit by removing your vote... I suppose Lucian and Shin have a point now. wen294 said: I don't really agree on the first part. I think the way he came to conclusion was alright, even though it was off. It reminds me of my own play in Hidamari Sketch.Red_Salmon said: @LucianRoy I did come to a conclusion. I said you were towny in the second para. The first para says why I was considering you to be scum. And it was all coming down to town reads. Normally scum would be the only ones who wouldn't want other scum to be buddying up to them in front of town as that could be allignment indicative if 1 got lynched. Your reaction to when other people read you as town was based on that understanding of mine and hence felt off. Cuz townies wouldnt bother with town reads. Now Shinichi also told me that you do this often. So more leaning towards town now. Sorry but i can't see that as a conclusion at all. Literally all you said that could let us know that you town read him was the "which is more towny" which is still a super weak form of expressing your read. It's only on 1, very small point. And aside from that 'more towny' =/= towny. Overall just a very weak way to say it. And aside from that everything above it completly gave off the feeling that you were scumreading him. Also putting the part about me agreeing with it aside, if you thought this was off then it would be worth persuing no? Instead of just taking chad's word for it and leaving it at that. It's like you had a scumread and gave up on it because it wasn't really convenient to keep it or something. The second part I can agree with. He shouldn't have taken Shin's word for it. Should have pursued it. This part is scummy. There's always a chance that Shin is scum and protecting a buddy, so the fact that Red dropped it makes it seems like he knows that what Shin said have to be right. @Red_Salmon I can go with this lynch. |
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aa-dono said: Gwendolly said: This is quite right.Also your voters already left you alone, so I'm guessing they are done. But things never really cleared up. Lucy's initial suspicion on Red was due to him calling out the Wisp-read. Lucian actually said that he did not think the read was weak. And the way he said it gave off confidence. But if he was confident with his Wisp-read at the point, it was scummy that he pursued Red at EoD1 even though staying at Wisp might have better chances at securing a lynch. If you've read the thread, where do you think my read on Wisp lies now? |
| "If you look for a ghost, you'll find one." |
AlbertinoDias said: Alright. Hope you'll come play another game when you're free ^^i had no time to read everything, sorry, i will be replaced because i'll have close to 0 time next week :/ what i say can be confusing i know, IRL is the same, i'm sorry, but my point is i did go with the train but voting someone that's going to be replaced would be the best call because no just it's safe, but that replacement could go to me :) (so the replacement person in question wouldn't be "hurt") i did get played in my eyes and do think what i said is true, last game we had 3 inactive persons, both of them played the same character both of them were the last scum... so yeah... i do think it would be the best option... have to go, sorry for the short post since yous seem to have many doubts of me but htis is the best i can do Have a good day o/ |
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ironace said: Why not just lynch Lucian to find out? 8)wen294 said: Can't say i like your confidence though. Just feels like you're spending more attention on making us think you're town that actually lynching scum. The only thing it's doing for me is making it harder for me to take your posts at face value because you probably spend time to review and set up every single post before making them. this is why im saying we need to lynch red salmon so that it will become a little more apparent that is lucian scum or not |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Explain how this is me pocketing him? He just called pyro in experienced and I said the opposite. The f you two talking about lol. |
~I am just one sadist who supports friends~ |
Shinichi-Kun said: Hmm even if that was a hosts mistake if I am held accountable for my forgetfulness even you should be. On day 1 its hard to form a powerful case, if this was a normal setup you would have been lynched. Also it depends on the flip flop, if you read someone as town but then scum read them in the next post people are gonna start asking questions. Sure its possible they're scum but 2 of them are known to lurk and the other said she might not be able to make the post count. Who are you talking about? Can you pls mention names? (your answer to salmon) |
| <3 |
wen294 said: Red_Salmon said: Are we reading the same ISO?Generally speaking, imo, his actions don't really say that he's scummy. He just pops in at times, looks at a few posts on that page (and that page alone) says stuff and then leaves. The only thing we can say for sure is that he's lazy. If the reason for voting him is #414 then I must say that his sheep at 414 is nothing out of the ordinary. Hes just being lazy and going with the flow. If you think it's not scummy then tell me this: Where do you see scumhunting? Where do you see him expressing his own opinion? Where do you see him adding anything to the discussion? Where do you seem him putting pressure on somebody? Where do you see any motivation/drive to solve this game? Where did you see him do something to drive the gamestate forward? This game has been going on for 72 hours now and he has yet to do anything even remotely usefull for town. Wait a sec, let me rephrase that: He has yet to even ATTEMPT doing something usefull for town. Because voting for somebody for the sole reason of getting them lynched without caring about the results is not what i consider usefull for town. I could ask the same questions about Togs or dono or ironace or pyro or any of the other inactives (or former inactives for that matter) I understand where you're coming from but looking at it again I think we can find better/more definite scum. PS. Backreading and replying before I go to bed |
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