Report Ascham's Profile

happy birthday!!

E aí! Tudo bem?
Criei um canal no YouTube recentemente, e seria incrível se você pudesse se inscrever e dar uma forcinha pra esse meu projeto, vou falar de animes e outros tópicos!! Estarei profundamente grata e agradeço, desde já!
https://youtu.be/l8dtvlwURjk?si=ufITfLxYH75vVHtO

jogo do juventude ou especial de natal da yukari tamura????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDjJ0vt5E5c

I will send this through to mediation if necessary. ! MEDIATION TEAM: START FROM THIS POST !

Just for ease of access/clarity for the people involved in mediation who read this post, I will detail all my points again and provide permalinks to any relevant threads, as well as having a complete index below to referenced items if you want to go through them individually.

I would like to notify mediators reading this that they WILL be spoiled on the final episode of the anime Bocchi the Rock! through this mediation process if they have not watched it.

============================================================
Index of main items related to this discussion:

> #3518138 - this thread itself
> #3515726 - tldr of my reasoning post
> #3516275 - NAT internal discussion post
> #3515306 - original "why 777?" post
> #3515313 - correlates with "why 777?" post
> https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1919446#osu/3962346 - beatmap description
> https://osu.ppy.sh/comments/2577453 - pinned comment on download page
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/533827429827870724/1062517305675878430/ideas.txt - deeper explanation of my ideas (attached in pinned comment)
> https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/en/Ranking_Criteria/osu%21#normal - rc for osu standard normal diffs
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocchi_the_Rock!#Anime anime Bocchi the Rock! wikipedia article
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJh5UeiULZs music video used for the audio and video of the map

Note: Not all my responses in threads are in context, and I may have misconstrued my own argument at certain points. This post details my final thought process, and I will lay out all my points in a format that is clear and easy to follow.

============================================================
The veto's main issue: Why is the AR/HP/OD 7 for the normal? That's very high.

> from https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/en/Ranking_Criteria/osu%21#normal, These are the normal guidelines for these difficulty settings:
AR: 4-6
OD/HP: 3-5

I am aware that my settings break these guidelines, however they break them for reasons I have exhaustively detailed and will detail again below, along with these settings being an integral part of the "high tension" relative to each difficulty, that I was going for in the entire set as a whole.

I would like to remind everyone that this is a normal difficulty and not an easy. I am assuming people who play this difficulty have experience with the fundamental aspects of the game, and know the fundamental concepts of "Approach Rate" and "HP drain" as "click when big circle reaches small circle" and "if I miss too much I die".

Furthermore, through actually sending these to my intended audience and also asking for testimonials after, I was able to gauge the general amount of tension felt by these players - which was high (intentional), but still totally accessible - almost all of them had no issues passing, or even getting really decent scores.

#3515726 #3515726/9458265 <- threads detailing the random multi lobbies I ran my map in.

============================================================
Reasoning and justification for my ideas in the map:

The entire concept of the map is built around the performance in the final episode of the anime Bocchi The Rock! https://osu.ppy.sh/comments/2577453

Information about BTR:
> mal: https://xss.now.cc/anime/47917/Bocchi_the_Rock
> wikipedia (has a description of what goes on in the final episode - which is relevant): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocchi_the_Rock!#Anime
> music video used for this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJh5UeiULZs

From my ideas.txt in the pinned comment https://osu.ppy.sh/comments/2577453
> "the gimmick of the map revolves around the idea that YOU are playing as Bocchi during her performance live at Shukusai in the final episode with her bandmates... [and] my goal was to allow the player to experience the emotions that bocchi feels during the performance for a more immersive map"

Bocchi (the pink hair girl) and her band are performing live on stage in front of their classmates. During this performance, Bocchi's guitar string breaks during performance, which makes her stop playing. Being the one who plays the solo, she is extremely worried about it because she needed that string to play. When the solo comes, Kita (red hair girl) realizes Bocchi can't play and ad-libs in order to cover for her. Bocchi, realizing this, is also struck with inspiration and determination, and plays an improv slide solo with a nearby bottle and continues.

Basically, I chose to map the music video (tv size) version because it would be easier to justify my intentions due to the specific event (her guitar string breaking) that ONLY occurs in the tv size version of the song, as well as being a literal "performance", which is highlighted by the video and also the ad-libs from audience members in the audio.

My goal was to have this kind of experience be accessible to players of all levels >= normal, and so I designed the set around the gimmick of high tension (as you are "performing") through the use of high OD/HP. In the difficulties above the normal, I follow Bocchi's part specifically in order to highlight events such as the string breaking, as well as the general tension felt during breaks through the use of a visible HP bar. I also Colorhaxxed the top 3 difficulties in order to show that it's Bocchi's part only, and their rhythm/density/patterning is all relatively similar in order to be as accurate as possible to Bocchi's rhythm while remaining accessible and immersive to their respective audiences.

============================================================
But why doesn't the normal follow the same exact gimmick of mapping Bocchi's part specifically?

#3516275/9457492 that is because the hard difficulty is the lowest difficulty in which I can comfortably map Bocchi's part at a level of quality I am acceptable with. Forcing the rhythm into the normal would make it much more difficult than I intend, or the other option of forcing rhythm simplifications would lose a large part of the immersion, which is extremely important for this set as a whole.

This is why I decided to map the entire band's rhythm for the Normal, as well as why its colorhaxxed differently, as well as being the only difficulty without the trend of the difficulty name. (Theres also a little bit of cute irony here as "Normal" is the only difficulty name not following the trend)

I still keep the high OD/HP though, because the normal is still a "performance", #3515313/9453728 it is just from the limitations of the difficulty that I am not able to follow the same rhythm gimmick.

The AR was actually separately determined from the OD/HP, and it just so happened to turn out that AR7 paired with OD7/HP7 worked the best for my intended audience, which I gathered through testplays.

Fuju brings up a good counterpoint however to why the difficulty settings could potentially be justified being lower, which is described and then refuted below.

============================================================
Refuting Fuju's counterpoints:

> 1.) from #3516275 "but the point of the anime is that bocchi is much more socially awkward than the rest of the band so why would the increase in diff settings be so high"
- Although I agree with this claim, there is a fundamental implicit assumption here that has *not* actually been proven in ANY regard to the intended audience of this map: normal players playing the normal will have a HARDER time than hard players playing the hard, etc. In fact, from my testplays, Normal players do about as well as hard players if not BETTER on their respective difficulty, which is exactly the kind of accessiblity I was looking for.

> 2.) from #3518138 "additionally, i believe that at this point ur just breaking the guideline this much due to a personal preference, which isn't a strong enough argument on its own to bypass the guidelines to such extend."
- I disagree, as I have gotten numerous testplays and determined from their feedback and replays and scores that the tension they feel is accurate to my intent with current settings, showing that this isn't merely just personal preference. I also believe the justification for higher tension is complete and extremely well developed due to all the context surrounding the map. I have put in effort even in minute details such as combo coloring, and using NCs to control HP during sections in order to convey my intent. The effort I have put in to create this exact experience is why I am so adamantly refuting this change.

============================================================
Refuting other common counterpoints:

> 1.) From people who are obviously not new players: "it's too hard for normal players!"
- I have gotten 20+ testplays in auto host rotate lobbies 0-3* and also asked for replays from random new players, who all do well yet feel the desired amount of tension. #3515726/9454811 #3515726/9458265 Furthermore, the NC's in this map are designed around being accessible while creating a tense experience, as NC's give extra health when hit. Please make sure the map is actually too hard for normal players before making this claim.

> 2.) "even though im not a new player i can still understand how they feel!"
- This is false. As an experienced player and mapper, you are no longer to discern many habits and difficulties a new player has when facing the game. You may attempt to "play with mouse only" or something of the sort, but you are ingrained with the ability to process osu hitobjects subconsciously at a high level, while normal players, despite understanding the fundamentals of the game, lack way behind you in understanding the mechanics behind the game subconsciously. I cannot accurately discern all these difficulties either, and so that is why I asked new players to test my map.

> 3.) "you dont have enough testplays!"
- Sure, I will admit a sample size of 20 isnt large, but at what point do you draw this line? The data I have collected has been extremely convincing so far, and so this feels like a very explicit way of trying to hold this map back from qualification/ranked. In fact, now that this baseline has been established, won't qualification help by introducing more new players to the map so we can judge even more accurately from a larger pool of players?

> 4.) "some of your so-called new players have A ranks on insanes in their top plays! They aren't representative of normal players!"
- Said testplayers also have B ranks on other hard difficulties, or A ranks on other normals. Not all maps are created equal, and my sample size of 20, despite being small, provides a stronger argument for the map being accessible than these edge case maps (which all happen to be maps designed to be easy to play anyway, which is the opposite of my intention here).

> 5.) "normal players literally dont exist and dont know how mapping/mapping discussions work they cant say anything anyway"
- I will also admit this is true, and so this is why I took up the burden of proof by spending my time getting familiar with actual normal players rather than make empty arguments. If you have any better alternatives than asking new players to test the map please do so and let me know how it goes. Otherwise, In all these threads, I have been the ONLY one actually putting in effort into the currently known best alternative: testplays and testimonials from actual normal players.

UPDATE ON POINT 5.) - #3518138/9463679

> 6.) "but putting hddt/hr on the map makes it very hard! Normals shouldn't be like that!"
- This map was designed with the intent to be played by normal difficulty players on nomod for the optimal experience, not by leaderboard farmers. This point assumes that putting on hddt/hr on a map makes you into a new player again, which is false, and is not a representation of how well a new player would do at all.

> 7.) "why not make this into an advanced and make a more generic normal?" #3517310
- As stated previously, the hard difficulty is the lowest one I could follow while keeping the rhythm gimmick at an adequate level. I would not rather break the trend even further. Also, this map is not an advanced difficulty based on testplays, and my decisions involving rhythm density and patterning were developed specifically for normal players. The difficulty settings alone do not make this into an advanced, and said difficulty settings along with the map were chosen with normal difficulty players in mind.

============================================================
My final conclusion:

AR was determined separately from HP/OD for all diffs. The reason the normal is HP/OD7 is to follow the gimmick of tension in the performance of the band . Through testplays from my intended audience (20+ new players in multiplayer lobbies and during qualification), I have concluded that AR7 paired with those settings gives the desired amount of tension whilst remaining accessible to these players. Any different difficulty settings would result in a different amount of tension than what I desired to provide the experience I designed for these players with respect to the context of the song and mapset.

============================================================
Conclusion Bonus! Written after discussion w/ kingling:

Gimmick maps are usually aimed towards more skilled players. However, because of BTR!'s reach as a popular anime, one of my primary goals was to create an accessible gimmick experience for players of all skill levels. Normal players should also be able to experience a good gimmick without being experienced at the game!

I believe the gimmicks I chose for this normal are all extremely obvious, clear even to normal difficulty players, and also combined with the fact that they find the map totally accessible, 7/7/7 is perfectly justified.

============================================================
Postscript + Interesting note:

It's been very interesting to see actual normal players respond to my normal, especially the ones that have watched BTR have found it very engaging and interesting, "even as a normal".

I would like to draw attention to that final phrase. These players, I realized, all think that normals are slow and boring, and are much more comfortable playing normals with DT/HR or both, but yet could barely play hard difficulties. I found many of these players who struggle on hards, when they saw me put up the normal IMMEDIATELY put on HR or asked for DT, which I had to dissuade them from. Is this kind of low difficulty progression what we really want for new players?

Although this is not entirely related to any points in this discussion, I do think that there might be something fundamentally wrong with how we as a community approach new players, maybe its time we actually collect data on how new players develop the fundamental skills involved in the game?

▬▬▬.◙.▬▬▬
═▂▄▄▓▄▄▂
◢◤ █▀🐒▀████▄▄▄▄◢◤
█▄ █ー ███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀╬
◥█████◤
══╩══╩═
hey, sorry I saw your profile and I just thought you looked cute in your picture, I really wanted to tell you that)) It's really rare to see girls playing video games haha! I don't know why its a guy thing honestly im like really against misogyny and like ill be the one in the kitchen making sandwiches. We should really play rust sometime its a really cool survival game with a lot of scary moments, but don't worry ill be there to protect you 😉 sorry that wasnt flirting I swear Im just trying to be friendly I really like your profile picture sorry was that too far? Really sorry i'm really shy I don't go out much haha add me on skype we should talk more you look really nice and fun xxx

love live

How are you

Hello

VAI ASSISTIR ARIA

desculpe estava pensando no HELLSHAKE YANO

aff

piruzinho is back

thank you for accepting my FR