VIZ Announces Girl Crush English Manga!

This is exactly what we’ve been waiting for

Is it all female yuri bat or not?

@RobertBobert

No. It mainly focuses on the growth and drama of the characters as they compete in the K-Pop industry. Main character has a crush on a guy in the beginning, and other guys exist, but it's not a pure romance title.

I don't blame you though, considering the title lol.

@ertiis Don't get me wrong, I've heard of the term girl crush and I know the difficulties of using it. It's just that every time I hear about all female idol titles and the premise of female "super nakama", I immediately have certain thoughts about the title, or at least its perception on manga resources, if you know what I mean.

@RobertBobert

Totally get what you mean! What's funny is that I focused so much on the imagery of the main character and how solitary she looked on the covers and promo art that I just assumed it was focused on dancing, after seeing her outfit and reading the synopsis. The other covers show the other girls solitarily, too.

I could be wrong as I'm not an expert, but most yuri/yuri bait typically has multiple girls if not a main couple of girls as the focus on covers and promos to showcase that the story focuses on their relationship, even if it isn't romantic or if it's like you said, "super nakama". But even thinking about all of this, I can't really tell you why it's called "Girl Crush," unless it's just a way of saying these "girls" are going hard "crushing" the competition. They aren't "friends" or "fuwa fuwa" because they are doing everything in their power to get to the top. It's a main focus, and why I find it a compelling read as they navigate what that means. I can stand to be corrected on that title theory, though.

But yeah, with genre trends, it's easy to assume things and it's much more difficult to imagine something different. The demographic is shoujo, and the theme is girl idols, so it's like we can just guess off of that until we get surprised by reviews or our experience, or not. XD

@ertiis After each case like this, I understand more and more why some authors of all-female titles like Kageki Shoujo introduce a male love interest for the MC from the very beginning, so that people don't get distracted by shipping and read their work for the original themes, lmao. However, judging by all-male titles like Wind Breaker, male authors are also wondering about this. But yes, while regular romance titles "sell" us the protagonist's love interest, yuri or BL usually promote both partners at once for obvious reasons.

@RobertBobert

Ohh, I'm so glad you noticed that, too! I always thought it was strange to see a love interest check and automatically assume "Okay, this is for x demographic," but it was most likely intentional, so I don't feel so tin foil hat about it now loll. It's a really good way to observe what a title is going for.

I also go by the synopsis for the all-male titles too, but I tend to go "Determined-looking young guys? This is a shounen!" even with the rampant female fans of some of these lol.

And that's a good way of putting that part about regular romance versus yuri and BL. It's so obvious, but I didn't think of it that way. It's probably also why people put such a strong emphasis particularly on subgenres/tags like slow burn or specific archetypes because the focus is much more narrow.

@ertiis I started thinking about this specifically after the authors of Natsumi and Hibike independently stated that they try to distance themselves from romance whenever possible, because when "your" title has romance, people tend to ignore everything else in favor of shipping and ships. Takeda Ayano later realized that the lack of romance often leads to people making it up themselves, but that's a different story, lmao :D. I call it the "Miyazaki take" because he was the one who originally suggested that people are obsessed with romance and therefore both the audience and the authors themselves tend to distract from the main themes in favor of it.

Well, that's one of the reasons why many people tend to think that yuri and BL usually focus more on both partners than straight romance. The thing is, straight romance usually uses the MC as a self-insert through which readers communicate with the love interest as the most "precious" character in the story, while for the reasons already mentioned, yuri and BL work on developing and advertising both partners. Of course, with the exception of more classic works, where the protagonist is also a self-insert character. Here a lot depends on the forms used and the target audience.

@RobertBobert

I can see that. Romance is one of the most prominent fantasies people have, whether it includes themselves or enjoying from the outside. I personally think that idealizing something that doesn't exist isn't wrong, but I can see from an author's perspective how it can be disappointing to hear the majority of feedback be in line with that idealization rather than the work itself; it's kind of insane to be honest.
This topic is loaded though, because I also believe that making characters attractive leads to those thoughts in the first place (but know there are a lot of reasons for that, including monetizing on their attractiveness with merchandise, etc). The countless doujinshi that exists for this kind of stuff speaks to which characters dominate the popularity charts, and a lot of the times for the average fan it's "because they're hot" lol. That's not to say people should make unattractive characters on purpose to avoid that kind of attention, and I feel it is such a shame to hear that those authors wished to distance themselves in the case of "What if they might have wanted to, but didn't want that kind of attention?" As well as the opposite "Let's do what sells, wooo!" Miyazaki really hits the nail when it comes to his thoughts on the industry and consumerism, and I have a deep respect for him and anyone else who does what they want no matter the feedback. Art being controlled by the fear of its reception is an ouroboros borne from creators and their consumers, and the escape for many is courage and opportunity. But the doujinshi will always exist, just gotta accept those lol.

I agree with that. I tend to notice more simplistic MCs for romantic stories so that the focus is easily given to the love interest. There are exceptions, but people are already used to the usual. It's also prominent in romance visual novels. I find it so grating to play a character with no face lol. I personally feel more effort should be put into MCs in these cases, but also see how many people value self-inserting. I feel those detailed tags should be slapped on everything so we all get what we want lol. It's ridiculous, but at least there'll be less complaints from dissatisfied fans, and maybe even less victims of baiting (what a phrase XD).

@ertiis You reminded me of how the creators of Geass half-seriously admitted to hating Suzaku because they wanted him to represent stupid naivety, but people loved him and wanted to see him more on par with Lelouch. This isn't really a serious example, though, considering Ichiro also once said that they intentionally added the most ridiculous plot twists to the show to see how much people were willing to take before they went too far and the audience said "this just is too silly". In turn, I think that authors should be able to do what they want, but also take full responsibility for it. I mean, many authors destroy their own titles, but then blame the audience for not accepting it.

Yeah. In Japan, works often don't get the yuri or BL tag unless it's a major theme of the work, but in the West, even a minor gay character can lead to requests for such a tag because people use it as a kind of symbol.

@RobertBobert

Lmao I'd love to read up on that. I had a good kick out of all of Hideaki Anno's "creative" ways of including his fans in his work. There's so much crap about it all the way up to the last movies. I think it's awesome to toy with viewers and their expectations on a project. And yes, absolutely right about having accountability and not shoving it into the hands of the consumers. We pay and review things separately from the creator's expectations, and they have to take that L if it bombs. That's included with what I said about respecting creators. I remember Vinland Saga season 2 airing and Yukimura speaking out at the backlash with "sorry if you're here for the violence." He didn't budge, was probably annoyed, but he had a plan and stuck to it even if it means losing fans. I find these people as paragons of their craft. The fallen ones are just victims of their own ego and maybe their publisher's pressure.

Oh, I didn't mean it that way at all lol! I was thinking of those doujinshi sites that have over 20 tags per title so that people can filter to what they want or can expect in a series. Japan has many unique terms for different kinds of content, but I know what you were referring to specifically to our Western brethren lol. Of course it isn't realistic to actually have manga or anime with a slew of words to help people decide what they'd like, but it would be really cool to have a database that does it. I guess MAL was trying for that with substacks, but it's user-generated, so mileage may unfortunately vary with those...

@ertiis Yeah, the author of Mushoku Tensai also often commented on the audience reaction to the adaptation of his LN and his latest story updates. His main idea is "I understand why you might not like it, but I write what I want and I'm not going to seriously change my work just because someone finds it wrong or not interesting for themselves."

Some sites have a custom tagging feature, but it often takes on some pretty weird forms. For example, sometimes you'll see "heterosexual" as a spoiler, or a BL tag on a manga just because the antagonist in one scene mocked the MC by saying he genuinely loved him.

@RobertBobert

Oh man, I heard so much about Mushoku Tensei but wasn't aware of his response to it. The industry needs more people like this; people who can realistically approach their work and communicate their intentions. It also helps to have publishers on their side, as a lot of those tend to force a creator's hand depending on the situation. Sometimes creators get away with it due to prestige, too–which sounds offhanded– but I respect that if someone takes advantage of their fame to do whatever they truly want, then by all means. The money will flow, or they'll eventually see themselves out (hopefully gracefully), or try again later when the dust settles lol. Regardless, I believe every era has a handful of creators that break the mold and show that they aren't here just to make generic slop, fanbase be damned. I enjoy content from a slew of genres and of varying quality, thankfully, but always have my eye out for something refreshing.

God, that's bad lol. If those sites allow users to add their own tags without moderation, then it makes perfect sense, but I guess we wouldn't be able to avoid people who run those sites putting anything and everything they interpreted rather than state the facts. State the facts, people!
I guess TV Tropes is a good site that lists even the most trivial of tags that are still accurate (or evidence-based), considering the high bar for editing and how tight the rules are.

@ertiis I think you might find it interesting to read the memoirs of editor-in-chief from Dengeki Bunko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengeki_Bunko , where he describes both his experiences working with the authors of SAO or Raildex, and his philosophy on writing a good LN in general. For example, he always says that the first step to creating a perfect work is to write about your "fetishes", i.e., what you yourself love most. This is always a sign that you will be able to write something with great passion and sincerity, instead of trying to catch up with what is popular and profitable.

In its original idea, yes. But it's also not ideal, as people often either overuse "subversions" to squeeze original things into their own framework, or simply pass off wishful thinking as reality. For example, the trope Ho Yay, which originally described things that seemed gay out of context, is now mostly used to justify obvious shipping goggles or even actual gay moments. But again, any tool can be used if you know how.

@RobertBobert

Oh! Thanks for the share! And yes! Someone else mentioned a philosophy along these lines but I forgot who... (it was actually a few people, and also from some in the video game industry, shout out to Suda51 and Yoko Taro!) It's a good topic for a thesis, for sure. I think this falls in line with a series that may seem trope-y, but have a creator express great interest in the subject. That would often lead to a slew of references and fan service that people can catch and enjoy alongside the author, among other boons. This sparks joy.

Lol at my immature reaction to your example XD But seriously, yeah we can't avoid people using words out of context and spreading it till it becomes a trend. I've long accepted that some words "change meaning" over time. These things become so ingrained in culture that it's inevitable. Thankfully for the initiated, the historical meanings of any word can be found down to the etymology if we wish to get learnt ("getting learnt" often used in memes; learn-ception). I wouldn't be able to tolerate misinformation like that in conversation with someone else. It's enough that I'll accidentally lurk on boards with people doing it, but this unfortunately has been going on way before the internet's existence. it's ironic to say that it seems worse now because it's easier for it to spread, but it was technically waaay worse back then when these things were more difficult to source, correct, or refute. Someone once refused to believe tartar was a real word, that was oh so fun to have to sit through in person lol. At least Ho Yay keeps to its meaning on TV Tropes! There should be a macro that links to sources whenever this happens, but websites would just explode, I'm sure. Okay, I'll stop joking around lol.