| I think people put way too much weight on plot when judging a show. You see it all the time — “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. But that’s not really how we watch or remember stuff. Plot is just one piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. Be honest: how many things you love could you actually retell from start to finish without forgetting half of it? Most of the time, what sticks isn’t the exact events. It’s a single scene that hit hard, a moment that made you laugh, an inspirational quote, a vibe that stayed with you long after. Those are the things you remember years later, not the "step by step" plot. Some of the most loved titles out there are messy, simple, or even repetitive when you zoom out. But people still love them because of how they feel: the characters, the mood, the pacing, the music, the energy. That’s what gives it staying power, not a flawless script. And let’s be real, we don’t judge everything equally. People will rip one show apart for a “plot hole” and then completely ignore bigger ones in another show just because they connected with it emotionally. That alone proves plot isn’t the deciding factor we pretend it is. When we say “good writing,” it’s not just about what happens. It’s about how it’s told. The pacing of each scene, knowing when to let a moment breathe, the way characters sound and feel real, the power of silence when it says more than words. A simple plot can still leave a mark if it’s delivered with care. And a perfectly crafted plot can feel lifeless if the delivery has no soul. If you had to pick between something perfectly polished but with no heart, or something a little rough that genuinely moves you, most people would choose the rough one without a second thought. Disclaimer: Plot does matter, no question about it. And sure, some shows are stronger or weaker because of how their plots are put together. But let’s be real: it is often overrated, especially when used as an argument. You can have a flawless plot and still feel nothing. You can have a messy, imperfect plot that sticks with you for years because of how it made you feel. In the end, most of us judge a story by the experience it gives us, not by how neatly every piece fits. And that’s not a flaw, that’s just how we’re built |
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| if people cared about plot, then no one would watch mushoku tensei |
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| If I were you I would make my list private too. |
| I don't give a F about the plots of most anime. Anime plots are so stupid usually it's best not to pay attention to them. People who say they watch anime for the stories are full of shit. The quality of the writing in 99% of anime is so bad it's rotting away their remaining brain cells. |
| All that matters in the end is that the characters are pleasing to look at like, or the plot offers some entertainment like Kaiji |
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| The plots of most anime makes little to no sense. Anime is so detached from reality that it is illogical. |
| Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings..... https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065 Here is my blog.... https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1 |
| Right, the feeling is what's remembered, that's why style > substance in entertainment. |
Pokitaru said: First of all, you shouldn't assume this is everyone's opinions lol. Talk about yourself, but I for the most part remember pretty well almost every show I've watched. Of course poignant moments stay more but I can easily recall at least 90% of every relevant show I've watched (in some cases even remembering the name of eps in order, but that is only a handful of times).I think people put way too much weight on plot when judging a show. You see it all the time — “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. But that’s not really how we watch or remember stuff Pokitaru said: There doesn't exist a flawless script. Of course things like things like mood and music are incredibly important (I wouldn't love Mushoku Tensei or Wonder Egg Priority otherwise) but I think you are confusing things right now. Something being "messy", "simple" or even "repetitive" doesn't equate to having a weak plot. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a deeply simple and messy show and One Piece can have incredibly repetitive arc structures, and yet they have amazing plots in their own right. What matters over everything is execution. I personally hate whenever people confuse something being "simple" with it being "worse" than other things. Over complicating the way you tell a story or its themes doesn't inmediately mean it is written in a narratively appealing way. Some of the most loved titles out there are messy, simple, or even repetitive when you zoom out. But people still love them because of how they feel: the characters, the mood, the pacing, the music, the energy. That’s what gives it staying power, not a flawless script. Pokitaru said: And no one said plot is the deciding factor of everything lol. Of course everyone has a different form of evaluating and rating shows, that doesn't mean plot doesn't matter. I actually have "emotional impact" as the single most important factor for any piece of fiction I ever consume (if you want me to get deeper into that I can, but that isn't the point), but that doesn't mean you can throw a plotless piece of media and I will like it. You need some sort of appealing and a somewhat well constructed story to create emotional impact in the first place.And let’s be real, we don’t judge everything equally. People will rip one show apart for a “plot hole” and then completely ignore bigger ones in another show just because they connected with it emotionally. That alone proves plot isn’t the deciding factor we pretend it is. Pokitaru said: Literally what I said before. You are confusing simple plots with bad plots, they literally have no correlation with each other. And "how" a plot is told is literally part of the plot itself, I dont understand what point you are trying to make there. Pacing is not something completely unrelated to the plot of a show, they are inherently connected. When an author is writing a story they don't make the plot first and then decide at what pace they are going to show it, they do it at the same time.When we say “good writing,” it’s not just about what happens. It’s about how it’s told. The pacing of each scene, knowing when to let a moment breathe, the way characters sound and feel real, the power of silence when it says more than words. A simple plot can still leave a mark if it’s delivered with care. And a perfectly crafted plot can feel lifeless if the delivery has no soul. Pokitaru said: The thing is that there is a greater possibility of having an amazing experience with a show if it has a great plot. The same cannot be said about it being "messy" or "imperfect" (and everything is imperfect by definition but whatever). If you only have messiness and no plot whatsoever then the show is going to be absolute dogshit. If you have the opposite, the show is at least going to be like a 7 or 8 out of 10, even if you don't reach insane heights of emotions with it.In the end, most of us judge a story by the experience it gives us, not by how neatly every piece fits. And that’s not a flaw, that’s just how we’re built |
| "Those words are meant for those that dare defy god's final warning... An epigraph of their stubbornness" - Maho Hiyajo (Steins;Gate 0)  |
Reply to MYZIC
@Catalano
Mushoku tensei has a great plot.
You are just a delusional mushoku tensei hater coping and seething at the greatness.
Mushoku tensei has a great plot.
You are just a delusional mushoku tensei hater coping and seething at the greatness.
| @MYZIC For someone that hates Mushoku Tensei that much he sures talks about it a whole lot. |
| "Those words are meant for those that dare defy god's final warning... An epigraph of their stubbornness" - Maho Hiyajo (Steins;Gate 0) |
Reply to JoeChip
If I were you I would make my list private too.
| What a great constructive argument!! :O |
|
Reply to DarkFirefly72
Pokitaru said:
I think people put way too much weight on plot when judging a show. You see it all the time — “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. But that’s not really how we watch or remember stuff
First of all, you shouldn't assume this is everyone's opinions lol. Talk about yourself, but I for the most part remember pretty well almost every show I've watched. Of course poignant moments stay more but I can easily recall at least 90% of every relevant show I've watched (in some cases even remembering the name of eps in order, but that is only a handful of times).I think people put way too much weight on plot when judging a show. You see it all the time — “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. But that’s not really how we watch or remember stuff
Pokitaru said:
Some of the most loved titles out there are messy, simple, or even repetitive when you zoom out. But people still love them because of how they feel: the characters, the mood, the pacing, the music, the energy. That’s what gives it staying power, not a flawless script.
There doesn't exist a flawless script. Of course things like things like mood and music are incredibly important (I wouldn't love Mushoku Tensei or Wonder Egg Priority otherwise) but I think you are confusing things right now. Something being "messy", "simple" or even "repetitive" doesn't equate to having a weak plot. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a deeply simple and messy show and One Piece can have incredibly repetitive arc structures, and yet they have amazing plots in their own right. What matters over everything is execution. I personally hate whenever people confuse something being "simple" with it being "worse" than other things. Over complicating the way you tell a story or its themes doesn't inmediately mean it is written in a narratively appealing way. Some of the most loved titles out there are messy, simple, or even repetitive when you zoom out. But people still love them because of how they feel: the characters, the mood, the pacing, the music, the energy. That’s what gives it staying power, not a flawless script.
Pokitaru said:
And let’s be real, we don’t judge everything equally. People will rip one show apart for a “plot hole” and then completely ignore bigger ones in another show just because they connected with it emotionally. That alone proves plot isn’t the deciding factor we pretend it is.
And no one said plot is the deciding factor of everything lol. Of course everyone has a different form of evaluating and rating shows, that doesn't mean plot doesn't matter. I actually have "emotional impact" as the single most important factor for any piece of fiction I ever consume (if you want me to get deeper into that I can, but that isn't the point), but that doesn't mean you can throw a plotless piece of media and I will like it. You need some sort of appealing and a somewhat well constructed story to create emotional impact in the first place.And let’s be real, we don’t judge everything equally. People will rip one show apart for a “plot hole” and then completely ignore bigger ones in another show just because they connected with it emotionally. That alone proves plot isn’t the deciding factor we pretend it is.
Pokitaru said:
When we say “good writing,” it’s not just about what happens. It’s about how it’s told. The pacing of each scene, knowing when to let a moment breathe, the way characters sound and feel real, the power of silence when it says more than words. A simple plot can still leave a mark if it’s delivered with care. And a perfectly crafted plot can feel lifeless if the delivery has no soul.
Literally what I said before. You are confusing simple plots with bad plots, they literally have no correlation with each other. And "how" a plot is told is literally part of the plot itself, I dont understand what point you are trying to make there. Pacing is not something completely unrelated to the plot of a show, they are inherently connected. When an author is writing a story they don't make the plot first and then decide at what pace they are going to show it, they do it at the same time.When we say “good writing,” it’s not just about what happens. It’s about how it’s told. The pacing of each scene, knowing when to let a moment breathe, the way characters sound and feel real, the power of silence when it says more than words. A simple plot can still leave a mark if it’s delivered with care. And a perfectly crafted plot can feel lifeless if the delivery has no soul.
Pokitaru said:
In the end, most of us judge a story by the experience it gives us, not by how neatly every piece fits. And that’s not a flaw, that’s just how we’re built
The thing is that there is a greater possibility of having an amazing experience with a show if it has a great plot. The same cannot be said about it being "messy" or "imperfect" (and everything is imperfect by definition but whatever). If you only have messiness and no plot whatsoever then the show is going to be absolute dogshit. If you have the opposite, the show is at least going to be like a 7 or 8 out of 10, even if you don't reach insane heights of emotions with it.In the end, most of us judge a story by the experience it gives us, not by how neatly every piece fits. And that’s not a flaw, that’s just how we’re built
| @DarkFirefly72 I think you might have read my post in “debate mode” rather than “discussion mode,” because you’re arguing against points I never actually made On “assuming everyone’s opinion” – I’m not assuming anything for everyone. That’s why I said “I think” and framed it around common patterns I’ve noticed in discussions. If you personally remember 90% of what you watch, that’s great for you I guess, but that doesn’t disprove that many people judge more by how a show feels than by how perfectly the plot is constructed. On “flawless scripts don’t exist” – Yes, obviously nothing is truly flawless. That’s exactly why execution, mood, and delivery matter so much — because perfection is impossible, and what lasts in memory isn’t just the sequence of events. And no, I’m not saying “simple = bad plot.” I’m saying a plot can be simple and still carry a show, or be messy and still be loved, because of the way it’s told. That’s not the same thing as calling it weak. On “how a story is told is part of the plot” – No. That’s narrative technique, not plot. Plot is what happens. Narrative technique is how it’s presented. They overlap, sure, but they aren’t identical. Pacing, tone, and character delivery are craft elements — you can keep the same plot beats and completely change how they land by altering those. That’s exactly why I separate them when talking about writing. On “needing plot for emotional impact” – A show doesn’t need a traditionally structured plot to create emotional impact. That’s just a fact. If you’ve ever seen a series of loosely connected vignettes, or a film that’s more about mood than story, you know it can work. A strong plot can increase the odds of connecting, sure, but it’s not the only road there. If it was, we wouldn’t have so many critically acclaimed works with minimal or unconventional narratives. On “messy + no plot = dogshit” – Ok sure, but that’s not even what I’m talking about. I’m saying a story can be messy by conventional standards (uneven pacing, unusual structure, meandering focus) and still be impactful. Messy doesn’t mean “content-free.” You’re treating “messy” like it’s synonymous with “empty”, and that’s not what I mean. Bottom line: You’re reading my points as if I’m waging war on plot. I’m not. I’m saying plot is one tool in the box, and people often overrate it compared to how much they actually value it in practice. And if we’re honest, we’ve all overlooked weak plots in things we love, and we’ve all dismissed perfectly sound plots in things we didn’t connect with. That’s all I’m saying, and I don’t think that’s very controversial |
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| Not much to say, I 100% agree. I think it's normal to go from "plot is the most important thing" when you're a beginner and everything feels new and fresh to "I've seen enough plots now, what really matters is a good execution (and good characters and good worldbuilding)". |
| I am not too concerned about the plots of anime shows. I like watching high school anime girls doing erotic dances. Like this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C45jeV32fw I like watching MMD videos of Hatsune Miku doing erotic dances. She may only be 16, but she is just a fictional character, she is not real. So nothing morally wrong with that. |
| Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings..... https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065 Here is my blog.... https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1 |
Pokitaru said: “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. Those are all valid criticisms. You seem to be equating these criticisms to the argument that "plot is the only thing that matters," when these people could simply be arguing "plot is a thing that matters." (Of course I don't know for sure, because I don't know what discussions you've had with what kinds of people about which anime) Pokitaru said: Most of the time, what sticks isn’t the exact events. It’s a single scene that hit hard, a moment that made you laugh, an inspirational quote, a vibe that stayed with you long after. Those are the things you remember years later, not the "step by step" plot. True, but the "moment" needs a good plot to land effectively. I need to understand why this moment is taking place, what the characters have been through, why it matters to them, etc. Otherwise, it's just a thing that happens that doesn't really mean anything to me. Thorfinn's "I have no enemies" scene would not have resonated so much without the entire warrior arc of Season 1 and his quieter but still difficult experiences throughout Season 2. I agree that there are moments with a poor/absent plot but are so strong in other areas that you can't help but feel deeply affected. But those other aspects have way more work to do if the plot isn't doing its part; they'd better be extra-special. Pokitaru said: When we say “good writing,” it’s not just about what happens. It’s about how it’s told. Good point. But the what and the how are not two entirely separate things, a weak plot can hamstring the storytelling and vice versa. And it goes beyond storytelling - if a character doesn't have anything interesting to do and experience, they'll have a hard time becoming relatable or developing as a person. And so on. I think you're giving plot way too little credit... |
Pokitaru said: I think that execution matters more than the plot, but the plot is one of the most important things, since it can be one of the main reasons for many people to watch/read something. Also, while all these criticisms can be personal, they can also be valid. For example, pacing affects the flow of the story, so it can easily make the anime worse or better than it would have been normally. Also, the ending tends to stay the most in the viewer's mind. A series with a bad start while it can be off-putting, it still has space for improvement, which can't be said for the ending. I think people put way too much weight on plot when judging a show. You see it all the time — “no story” “weak plot”, "mid pacing" “bad ending” — like that’s the main thing that matters. But that’s not really how we watch or remember stuff. Plot is just one piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. Pokitaru said: This is an impossible task regardless of plot, because memory has a limit. It's normal to remember what you liked with more details, but some of these details will fade with time passing, especially when you have to remember a lot of other things as well.Be honest: how many things you love could you actually retell from start to finish without forgetting half of it? Most of the time, what sticks isn’t the exact events. It’s a single scene that hit hard, a moment that made you laugh, an inspirational quote, a vibe that stayed with you long after. Those are the things you remember years later, not the "step by step" plot. Some of the most loved titles out there are messy, simple, or even repetitive when you zoom out. But people still love them because of how they feel: the characters, the mood, the pacing, the music, the energy. That’s what gives it staying power, not a flawless script. Pokitaru said: 100% agree most critiques are biased and while this is inevitable ripping a show apart just to confirm your bias is not a critic it is nitpicking. You can see the same habit of complaining about bad animation and the only proof they post is a screenshot from a random moment in the anime (the fact that it is a still image alone makes it invalid). Also, good or bad writing without more context means nothing.When someone makes such bold statements they need to provide reasons in order to back them up. And let’s be real, we don’t judge everything equally. People will rip one show apart for a “plot hole” and then completely ignore bigger ones in another show just because they connected with it emotionally. That alone proves plot isn’t the deciding factor we pretend it is. |
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