| In most versions of "Plato's Cave", it is explicited that the prisoners are also chained by their necks, that's why they can only look to their fronts and not sideways. I keep thinking about that analogy for various things: First, when I wrote that much of what proclaims itself as "alternative media" isn't really that alternative, because as much as it shit-talks mainstream media 24/7, it purposefully copies all it's aesthetic because it wants people to think they're "mainstream media, and therefore serious, reliable and trustworthy". They're not building an alternative to mainstream media, they're just trying to copy it, but "with a different flavor". Whenever the anime community complains all year long that the methods of the Oscars or the Crunchyroll awards are shit, therefore they aren't legitimate... then, when the time comes, cry and spurn that the thing they want isn't there (Meaning they recognize those as legitimate). They aren't making an alternative to those, they just want it to have a different flavor. Like I talked about in Is watching the 20th most popular anime of a season basically "living off-grid"?, most culture war discourse comes from people arguing on what should be the flavor of the slop they're all eating (Whether it will be pizza flavor, ice-cream flavor, etc) instead of they just turning their necks to the side and eating actual pizza or ice-cream. This would be the reason anime is more resistant to it, as it is already something "alternative", but those (Usually mainstream) anime that suffer from it, suffer from this exact reason: People wanting to flanderize or force certain aspects into them rather than turning their necks to consume stuff that would be 100% those aspects (e.g. What I talked about "queerslop" in Is lack of information the source of most conflict online?. I could give more examples from all ideological sides, but then the thread would become too political) I don't understand, are people too lazy to simply turn their necks? |
| Because the massive neck beard is like a neck brace. |
*kappa* |
| I too never understood how the story of Plato's Cave could apply to anything in real life. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
I too never understood how the story of Plato's Cave could apply to anything in real life.
| @Lucifrost According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^ The best way I found to use it is trying to identify yourself as a prisoner, a free citizen near the fire casting shadows on the walls or the philosopher going out in sunlight. The brighter the light, the closer to the truth of Good you are ... I find it's too abstract for me to be actually useful. But that thread makes me want to dig deeper in the mysteries of the Allegory. |
 |
Reply to Eldinis
@Lucifrost According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^
The best way I found to use it is trying to identify yourself as a prisoner, a free citizen near the fire casting shadows on the walls or the philosopher going out in sunlight. The brighter the light, the closer to the truth of Good you are ... I find it's too abstract for me to be actually useful. But that thread makes me want to dig deeper in the mysteries of the Allegory.
The best way I found to use it is trying to identify yourself as a prisoner, a free citizen near the fire casting shadows on the walls or the philosopher going out in sunlight. The brighter the light, the closer to the truth of Good you are ... I find it's too abstract for me to be actually useful. But that thread makes me want to dig deeper in the mysteries of the Allegory.
Eldinis said: According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^ That sounds completely useless. Why do people continue to teach it thousands of years later? |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
Eldinis said:
According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^
According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^
That sounds completely useless. Why do people continue to teach it thousands of years later?
| @Lucifrost Most people misuse it. In context, it's suppose to be an introduction to Platonic Idealism. Recall that Plato thought that reality was fake, so this allegory is very enticing to schizos and conspiratorial freaks. I'm only focusing on the "chained by their necks" part, which isn't even relevant to the story and some might not even mention it. |
Reply to Lucifrost
Eldinis said:
According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^
According to a teacher I had, it's only a self-serving allegory from Plato to claim only a philosopher has access to truth ^o^
That sounds completely useless. Why do people continue to teach it thousands of years later?
| @Lucifrost It's still a foundational text for philosophy, ethics, morals, freedom (of mind and knowledge) on the search of Good. It's easy enough to be taught in high school, and poetic enough to be popularized. Most people don't refer to it fully but take bits and pieces like here. There's a character I liked very much who was very motivated to "free those poor souls addicted to MMORPGs". He uses a lot of shady methods, and he describes once addiction like Plato's Cave. thewiru said: Are people too lazy to simply turn their necks? I looked further into it. The allegory of the cave is also a reflection on teaching and the transmission of knowledge. Socrates, Plato's mentor, is unambiguous in explicitly discussing the transmission of knowledge. Socrates: "A free man should learn nothing like a slave. Lessons forced into the soul do not remain there." Plato: So, how do we teach and how do we learn best? Socrates: "Let (children) learn through play: in this way you will be able to better discern each child's natural inclinations." I read this part as people can't turn their necks without enlightenment and free will. - Enlightenment is guiding to the sun light outside the Cave after all. - And only by their own free will. That's because everyone has different tastes (natural inclinations). If people want to eat slop and watch shit anime, they have a will to do it, and you can only subtly influence them towards better light, yet you cannot force them to go towards the light. Once again, Plato is presuming to know the way to the light, hence why my teacher called it self-serving. He must have been rude in real life LOL. |
EldinisFeb 3, 11:55 AM
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| I don't know what you mean, I turn my neck all the time (no, I didn't read your OP). |
| Hmm, I think I kind of understand the first half of your post, but I don’t really understand the last half about the culture war discourse, pizza and ice cream flavor, flanderizing, and anime’s resistance to.. something lol. If I had to take a guess, the main point of this thread is that watching more unpopular/obscure anime is better than watching mainstream anime, and that unpopular/obscure anime already often have the positive qualities that mainstream anime have? |
Reply to Lucifrost
I too never understood how the story of Plato's Cave could apply to anything in real life.
| @Lucifrost Well, you are already in one of those little caves - look, over there in the corner, thewiru is quietly playing with the shadows. Our model is a bit more developed than the Socratic one: - first, the prisoners aren't chained; they just have no reason to turn around, like drivers in that Apple car with no steering wheel - second, some of them have nowhere to go anyway - while they were busy with the shadows, a crocodile ate their sun But we can't blame Socrates for his ignorance here - he lived in dark times, when neither anime forums nor instant noodles existed. https://ibb.co/album/HnTgZc |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
| I have no clue what it means to turn your neck. I tried to physically turn my neck there and i failed |
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